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-   -   Saving the "Rat" - Restoring a 69T (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/660560-saving-rat-restoring-69t.html)

kkinzli 09-17-2012 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95avblm3 (Post 6981248)
For some reason I had trim screws and non-structural fasteners on the mind when I voted for stainless. I have to say that I agree here ^^^ on the structural stuff. If you know of a shop that does good anodize work, they will often zinc-plate. I have been pondering attempting my own zinc plating when the time comes... it looks relatively simple in process but one hurdle that I can see needing to overcome is handling and proper disposal of the chemicals. That may be an issue.

Jeremy,

What shop is that? I did a brief search for Fort Myers/Bonita Springs and was not able to turn up much. Can you give me some contact information?

kkinzli 09-17-2012 06:24 PM

;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daves911L (Post 6981110)
Kristoph,
That is the problem with virtually all fibreglass parts; some modification required. But FG is remarkably easy to work with (though messy and irritating, and Anna won't let you in the house for a couple days because of the smell) .

I think 95avblm3 has it right, and you are going to have to cut the old brackets off and glass on new ones in the correct location. If I remember though, some of these I have used in the past used the brackets from the stock bumper bolted into a plate glassed into the new bumper. Give it some engineering thought and see what you can dream up. Class project?

I vote against stainless. Your original fasteners are, well, original! The correct length and strength for each application. Plus the nice head markings. If you go stainless, who knows what you'll get. Having bought a bunch of stainless hardware (for Langemann gate projects) I can tell you that unless you spring for mil-spec ($$$$), its a complete crap shoot. Virtually all SS today is coming out of China, and QC is apparently non-existent. We've put some stainless in the water that actually corroded faster than mild steel! Gerald Robinson has had some similar experiences and could tell you more. With quality all over the map, I'd expect strength/failure issues too.

Better to stick with that old quality German steel. Lay everything out on the garage floor next to the carefully labeled baggies you have. Take a bunch of pictures. Then toss it all unceremoniously in a 5 gallon bucket. Take bucket down to the plating shop and have it all yellow zinced. Or cad if you can find it. Or some other pretty color if you prefer. In the process they will clean and de-rust the fasteners and get them back to you in pretty decent shape. Then you dump the bucket out and spend a couple days sorting back into your carefully marked baggies. Your slave child, oops, I mean Paduan apprenctice, would probably be useful for this. It will cost less to do this than buying all those SS chinese fasteners of dubious quality. A dab of grease or "never-seez" on fasteners during re-assembly is always a nice touch.

DG

Hi David,

Thanks for the great advice. I will stay away from stainless for any structural stuff and only use it for the rocker trim and bumper endcaps. Hopefully, Jeremy can hook me up with a plating shop in Tampa and then I can use the Padawan to sort out bolts;). In terms of fitting the bumper I had a great idea this evening. I decided to line the old and the new bumper up side by side and use the old bumper as sort of a jig to bend the tabs on the FG into the correct alignment. I am planning on cutting the tabs on the FG bumper with a dremel tool, aligning them to the old brackets and then glassing them into place with plenty of reinforcement. I did a bit of reading on fiberglass today and getting the resin and the mat will entail a trip to Autozone down the street:). There appears to be a gel type resin and a normal resin. Any ideas on which one is better? Based on my research I am leaning towards the gel type as it seems to run less. I might try to tackle this on Thursday after teaching!

Cheers,
Kristoph

kkinzli 09-17-2012 06:26 PM

Here are some pictures of my two bumpers lined up. You can clearly see where I need to bend the attachment tabs on the FG bumper into the correct position.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1347931537.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1347931554.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1347931568.jpg

95avblm3 09-17-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinzli (Post 6982091)
Jeremy,

What shop is that? I did a brief search for Fort Myers/Bonita Springs and was not able to turn up much. Can you give me some contact information?

ELECTROLAB USA
Electro-Lab II, Inc.
369 Douglas Rd
Oldsmar, FL 34677

My office is right around the corner and I have used them to anodize a few protos over the past 3 or 4 years. I told my friend Jason (jbizzle78) about them and he took a bucket of fasteners from his '71T coupe (in many of my pics) for yellow zinc plate. They did a nice job. They are set up for and cater to some of the larger corporations around (Lockheed Martin, Goodrich, etc) but have never complained about taking on a small, one-time job. They are my back-up plan if I decide that it isn't feasible to do it myself.

There are a couple of places in Orlando too... but not as convenient.

porwolf 09-17-2012 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkinzli (Post 6982126)
;)

Hi David,

Thanks for the great advice. I will stay away from stainless for any structural stuff and only use it for the rocker trim and bumper endcaps. Hopefully, Jeremy can hook me up with a plating shop in Tampa and then I can use the Padawan to sort out bolts;). In terms of fitting the bumper I had a great idea this evening. I decided to line the old and the new bumper up side by side and use the old bumper as sort of a jig to bend the tabs on the FG into the correct alignment. I am planning on cutting the tabs on the FG bumper with a dremel tool, aligning them to the old brackets and then glassing them into place with plenty of reinforcement. I did a bit of reading on fiberglass today and getting the resin and the mat will entail a trip to Autozone down the street:). There appears to be a gel type resin and a normal resin. Any ideas on which one is better? Based on my research I am leaning towards the gel type as it seems to run less. I might try to tackle this on Thursday after teaching!

Cheers,
Kristoph

I have done FG wor with regular Auto Parts Supply Store, Hardware Store, or Home Depot type fiberglass kits. I would use the cloth and regular resin because it penetrated the cloth better. You can brush it on and keeping the surface you are working on kind of leveled helps. I would to the job into individual parts. You can mix the resin in readily available small plastic mixing cups. Of course you need a new brush for every single resin mix. Get the cheapest brushes you can find. All together the work should not take too long because the resin sets in 10 to 15 minutes. Cleanup can be done with acetone if the resin has not hardened.

95avblm3 09-18-2012 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porwolf (Post 6982550)
I have done FG wor with regular Auto Parts Supply Store, Hardware Store, or Home Depot type fiberglass kits. I would use the cloth and regular resin because it penetrated the cloth better. You can brush it on and keeping the surface you are working on kind of leveled helps. I would to the job into individual parts. You can mix the resin in readily available small plastic mixing cups. Of course you need a new brush for every single resin mix. Get the cheapest brushes you can find. All together the work should not take too long because the resin sets in 10 to 15 minutes. Cleanup can be done with acetone if the resin has not hardened.

+1 to this...

I recommend Harbor Freight or Big Lots for cheap brushes ;). I think Harbor Freight has a big sale going on starting today until the 1st.

kkinzli 09-21-2012 06:15 AM

Day 53: Lots of progress to report. In the last couple of days I was able to buy 3M 80 adhesive for vinyl work, Weldwood contact cement for the headliner, pick up vinyl, foam, flexible epoxy, and a board for the dash (I am now planning on redoing my dash myself). I have a 68 dash so it is two seperate pieces. I took all of the original fasteners out of the car, reassembled with cheap chinese ones for final block and test fitted the rear bumper guards. I had been worried about how things would line up as the right rear was pretty bent up. It looks like everything lined up just fine!! I made myself a ton of drawings for reassembly and even had some help from the nice manager at Sunshine Ace Hardware (he let me borrow their fastener sizing board:)) A few questions before the pictures. Should I get all of the latches zinc coated? What about the door stricker plates? Also, I am having difficulty getting the rear bottom latch of the decklid out of the body. Any tips or tricks to doing this?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348233241.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348233279.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348233301.jpg

kkinzli 09-21-2012 06:16 AM

I am planning on blasting all of the fasteners before I send them off so they are nice and clean

Daves911L 09-21-2012 07:08 AM

Kristoph,
The places I have dealt with on plating tumble the fasteners for cleaning, so you might not want to bother with the blasting. Check with them first on what they want.

The rear deck lid latch does come out, it just takes some finagling. Its like one of those ring puzzles people have on their coffee tables. You get it lined up right and make the correct 3 moves and it comes right apart. The 911 deck lid latch is about a level 3 puzzle. Try a 356 ZF steering box without removing the pittman arm, thats a 10+, but do-able

DG

95avblm3 09-21-2012 07:45 AM

Kristoph,

Have you found a plating house yet? Did you see my reply? It's really coming together well now! I look forward to pics of it painted :)

kkinzli 09-21-2012 08:58 AM

I got the rear latch out! I did have to fidget with it for a while but I finally got it. I have decided to go with the shop that Jeremy mentioned further up in the thread and they will do some cleaning but I want a really good result so I will spend an hour blasting later today. Currently baking sand in the oven at 400 F;)

kkinzli 09-21-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95avblm3 (Post 6989291)
Kristoph,

Have you found a plating house yet? Did you see my reply? It's really coming together well now! I look forward to pics of it painted :)

Thanks for the reply about the plating shop. I called them and they have a two day turn around time which is awesome. I am planning on shipping all of the fasteners to them on Monday. Thanks for the encouragement. I know I am getting closer but sometimes it still feels like I have a million miles to go.

kkinzli 09-21-2012 03:07 PM

Day 54: Afternoon report due to rain delay (currently pouring cats and more cats - The saint is at home grading and therefore I can only grind out on the driveway because of the noise)

Today I decided to tackle a bunch of different things at once. I blasted all of the fasteners and latches and then threw everything into muriatic acid for extra cleaning. I could not get the sand to dry and therefore had to bake it. Did I say that my wife is a saint for putting up with me? I was also able to treat the inside of the doors with Ospho and then spray with a self etching primer. Here are a few pictures:





http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348265162.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348265186.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348265206.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348265225.jpg

RWebb 09-21-2012 03:42 PM

you need an oven in your lab - under the hood

BTW - the steel overriders on the FG bumper are giving me cognitive dissonance...

here is what I did:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/273740-yet-another-boring-hot-rod-rgruppe-car-part-v-exterior-paint.html

Fishcop 09-21-2012 04:50 PM

That's not silica sand you're using to blast with is it? Please don't, it's up there with asbestos when fine particles are inhaled! Google "silicosis". There's better alternatives such as garnet.

kkinzli 09-21-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishcop (Post 6990157)
That's not silica sand you're using to blast with is it? Please don't, it's up there with asbestos when fine particles are inhaled! Google "silicosis". There's better alternatives such as garnet.

Hi John,

Thanks for your concern. I have been using fine play sand from a local hardware store but have always worn my trusty mask for the very reason you mention. The mask is rated for VOC and is OSHA approved for epoxy paint fumes and fine particulates. The shop where I got most of the panels and rear wheel well blasting done used garnet which is quite a bit better but at $5 a bag the play sand works for little stuff. Your car is looking great and I hope that my plating next week turns out as good as your do it yourself approach!

Cheers,
Kristoph

kkinzli 09-21-2012 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 6990024)
you need an oven in your lab - under the hood

BTW - the steel overriders on the FG bumper are giving me cognitive dissonance...

here is what I did:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/273740-yet-another-boring-hot-rod-rgruppe-car-part-v-exterior-paint.html

Hi Randy,

Your car looks great and thanks for the link. My bumpers in the back are all original Rat from Stuttgart. I am only going to have the overriders in the rear but am still planning on running the fog lights in the front. The only place I am using fiberglass is the front bumper. Sorry to say but there is no oven in my lab. There is one in the geotech lab though. Maybe I will have to use it next time;)

kkinzli 09-21-2012 07:05 PM

Day 54 continued: After the rain let up I was able to grind all of the rust off of the smugglers box lid and repaint. I also repainted the smugglers box. I used rattle can primer and paint for this and I think it will be a good experiment in terms of checking the longevity and comparing normal acid etch rattle can primer to the heavy duty epoxy stuff. If I need to redo the smuggler box several years down the road it will not be a big deal. I was also able to finish up the front bumper attachment brackets that go on the battery boxes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1348279455.jpg

Daves911L 09-22-2012 09:14 AM

Kristoph,
I was looking at your pile of fasteners to be plated and it occurred to me that maybe there is more to the story with decklid latches. I am thinking that on earlier cars they should be silver in color (originally clear cad I think), rather than yellow. I just don't recall for certain any more. Maybe you could get some others to weigh in. Also you probably need to disassemble the male portions before plating. I think the seat at the bottom of the spring that actually engages the latch may be some different type of metal and does not get plated? Anyway, my suggestion would be to study them carefully and solicit a few more opinions before tossing them in the bucket with the rest of the nuts/bolts.
DG

RWebb 09-22-2012 12:20 PM

there is a thread on Early911S bbs that discusses just that plating color change - last week or so

I didn't pay much attn. as I'm not a period correct kinda guy...

- is that primer or the top coat on the smugglers box lid?


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