Need help...thinking of trading 3.2 to a 993...

[agfours]

Currently driving my 1985 Factory Turbo Look Cabriolet as a DD. Love the car. That said, after a year of DD, some of its 'honesty'/rawness is getting tiresome, especially in traffic. Oh yeah, I live in Texas too, and the A/C is gonna run me some $$ to get it to modern cooling standards. Didn't mind living with it last summer and with the top permanently down, but this summer I'll have to manually raise/lower at least 2x on a daily basis, as I no longer have a parking garage at the new office.

When I got this car a year ago, I stayed with my gut, and sold myself on the 3.2 as it was the car I always wanted, regardless of what I may have needed or enjoyed as a DD for that matter. So, now, after a year I'm starting to think of how nice that A/C and extra power would be (as well as an automatic top / coupe).

I've been doing all of my own wrenching, and I enjoy that part, but what does add to the stress is when my DD is up on stands for misc. things. Yes, I've thought about getting a $3000 commuter...still a possibility, but then there's the enjoyment of being able to drive the P-car daily that I'd miss....

So, here's my list of questions / fears on the 993 - been down this path once, but looking to get better validation.

1. I live in an OBDII emissions testing state - so SAI is a concern unless I limit myself to a '95.... this limits choices...greatly. Question is, does anyone have any good understanding on the probability of SAI issues? Is the perception hyped/overstated by the number of posts (the adage that all you see on BB's are problems, not representative of the frequency of the problem as gauged by the number of posts...?) I also have seen 'quick fix' discussions around using chemical soaking of the deposits overnight using BK44, etc. if the issue arises....for those who actually own 993's is this a real concern or am I over perceiving the issue? Yes, I'll get a PPI.

2. Tiptronic.... I really never considered these cause it didn't seem proper to have an automatic in a P-car as a true sports car. I like 'rowing my own' but starting to see the potential benefit in traffic. There is a 1998 Carrera S with a Tip I'm considering looking at.... thoughts on the trade off to have an S, but with Tip? (balanced in the price point as well...?) Hard to re-sell a Tip? What about an S with Tip?

Help!! Yes, I know this has been discussed 100x, but just need to type it out, get thoughts and get some perspectives given my specifics....

Thanks All!!

Paul

[AlfonsoR]

how about getting yourself a golf TDI as a DD and saving your 911 for weekends/ cool weather?


I can't help on SAI, but if I were going the 993 route, I would just wait for the right 1995. Otherwise if you must have a C2S or C4S, then you must have it and will do what it takes to correct any issues as they come up, right?

trptronic...hmmm, that's definitely a personal choice. I think your comments are correct though on price and resale

[aigel]

I think the SAI issues are over-rated. Especially for a DIYer who can get around a $10k top end pretty easily with flushing and other tricks.

The 993 is more complicated and now just as old as the 3.2 practically. If something goes out on it, plan on a longer repair.

I would suggest trying a 993 and see how you like it!

G

[Paul K]

Upgrading the AC will be cheaper than getting into a 993.

I've had both, and second what Aigel said about driving one.

SAI is rare, and please don't get a tip!

993 forum on Rennlist is pretty helpful.

[88911coupe]

Good friend went from a '88 930 to a 993 tip (lives in LA, brutal traffic) and never went back. The 993 got stolen out of his driveway then moved to 996, also with a tip. I've driven both of them, along with the 930 and I have to say it's a real pleasure in heavy traffic. I kept telling myself to stop liking it!!! I'm in Dallas and have the same issues...my '88 is becoming a tiresome daily driver and the prices on 996s are getting VERY tempting. I good buddy here has a 993 and I can testify that the ac is better than our cars but not a HUGE improvement. He still complains enough about his 993 ac that he uses his M5 for most commuting and traffic driving. 993 is a much better car than my '88, I can say that. More power and better looking.

[Canada Kev]

Concerned about manually raising/lowering the top twice a day? Really? Sell your 911 and buy a Camry.

In all seriousness (well, sorta - complaining about manually lowering the top is kinda sissyish...), a 993 is going to cost you more, is more difficult to wrench yourself, and is still a decade and a half old at best. Get yourself a decent (read reliable) smaller commuter car to use a day or two a week to remind yourself why you love your 911 or when it's off duty for service work. In the end, get what you want. Hiding behind AC upgrades and the top complaints is not the way to go.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with a 993. Want one myself. In addition to all the others, of course...

[wolf76]

Hello,

I went from an 84' 3.2 to a 95' 993. I am very happy with the decision. I however do/did not daily drive either. I agree with the above comments about the ac being better but not drastically better ( my Accord has much better AC) but it does a nice job keeping me cool. You should definitely drive one and see what you think. I find mine much more refined than the 84', but that's what I was looking for. No comment on the tip either (never driven one). I don't know how much it affect resale but I would think the market would be smaller which would mean a longer time frame when it came to selling. The C2S/C4S do carry quite a premium but then again they are beautiful cars. Best of luck in your search.


Chris

[agfours]

Thanks everyone. Replies were exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. Thanks for keeping it real Canada Kev. I've actually driven and almost bought a beautiful and well kept 1996 993 cab when I bought the 3.2 but the repair shop it had been to disclosed it had seen a Check engine light and I got gun shy because it only had 33k mis. It essentially validated in my mind that the SAI issue wasn't a myth, but I should have taken the time to get more than a sample size of one. (all cowboys walk in a straight line- at least the one I saw was....) Anywho, thanks again to all for the feedback. Gonna have to mull it over...I like the idea of a cheapo commuter car but then can't bring myself to driving a Japanese econobox. I start looking at old 300td's as if that were both an inexpensive and reliable 2nd car, but more than likely expensive relative to age to get the reliability. (sigh). I'll take all of your advice and go drive them all again, which I'm sure will polarize a direction. Thanks again all!

[88911coupe]

I've been looking at a BMW E9 5 Series as a daily driver but those are all about 100k so the reality is I'll be working on two cars. Best solution was my last one...leased a new Audi A4 and drove the 911 when it was not over 90, not raining, not heavy traffic, etc....ended up not driving the 911 very much at all over the 3 years I leased the Audi. Really impressed with Audis overall.

[POS]

It's very admirable that you DD as long as you did. As a fellow Texan, there's no way I could DD my classics in the city. I love driving them, but could never accept them as sole transportation. There are many times when I just have to have something modern. I bought an M-package 128i for the job. I'd suggest a reliable, fun-to-drive beater for 2-3 days a week. A Japanese crapbox would do the job well, but I don't like them either. Used CTS with a stick? Mustang v6 itch a stick? Both are quite cheap, reliable, and fun to drive.

[80-911SC]

I agree with most of the others here ..

Get a beater with good AC and roll the 911 from Friday thru Sunday ...

But I am a bit biased .. I drive a 1980 SC and a 1973 914 neither of have air .. and I am in the middle of Cali in the valley .. summer gets to 110 + so I feel ya ....

Although i do admit I do occasionally grab the wife's 208 Altima and if its hot and we are going together I usually drive her car .. but that's because she hates my cars .. both of them .. might be a meta-fore for something but she really hates them both ...

Steve

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by agfours

Thanks for keeping it real Canada Kev.

Sarcasm? Jeez, I hope not. I didn't mean to be a turd...


I find it interesting that we need a "modern" car to drive on a daily basis. Have we (as a society) all gone soft? Assuming a person's older car is reliable, and most maintained air cooled 911s are as reliable as ANY car ever is, why couldn't/shouldn't it be driven daily? It wasn't all that long ago that it WAS modern. Anyway, just a random thought...

[agfours]

No sarcasm intended - to the contrary - appreciated reality check, as I have to remind myself sometimes that I'm driving the car I drooled over since I was ~12 old. I shouldn't complain, maybe I'm just getting into the early stages of my "comfort years"

[agfours]

Really impressed with Audis overall.

Likewise. Wife has an 06 A6, and I sold a pristine A4 with only 30k on it to get the 911 !!

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by Canada Kev

Have we (as a society) all gone soft? ..

Your society and my society , soft as a metro's moisturised handshake and waxed chest.
Meanwhile , the women are getting tougher. Well ,maybe not all of them.

[porschenut]

Originally Posted by agfours

but the repair shop it had been to disclosed it had seen a Check engine light and I got gun shy because it only had 33k mis. It essentially validated in my mind that the SAI issue wasn't a myth, but I should have taken the time to get more than a sample size of one.

Are you sure the CEL coming on was due to clogged SAI ports? The CEL comes on when ANY part of your emissions equipment fails - oxy sensor, SAI pump, SAI check valve, loose fuel cap, and lots of other things, all of which are very simple and cheap to fix. There's only one thing to be worried about, and that's clogged ports. That doesn't happen very often, in spite of all the panic you may read about. The fix is to clean them out, and any competent shop can do that for about $1K. A top end rebuild is usually NOT required. In other words, relax about the overblown, overhyped SAI risk.

I have an '86 Carrera that I once used as my daily driver for 2 years through cold Colorado winters and hot Colorado summers. The only thing it required during that time was a new voltage regulator and normal maintenance.

I also have a '97 993 C4S, which is an absolutely wonderful car. Properly working 993 A/C freezes my buns off here in Colorado, but will at least be adequate in Texas (unless you live in Houston - oh my lord). Lots of C2S's are Tips. I have no idea why. There's nothing better than a widebody 993, IMO. However, my '86 is more fun to drive now that I've lightened it considerably.

[kuehl]

Paul,

To trade or not to trade? time to cash the chips in?
We get these questions often on ac upgrades.

All what has been said here is good. But I prefer old school.
My 87 cab will freeze you out in TX and will leave any NA 993 in the dust ( I have a blower).
The cost to repair a C2/C4 or 993 ac system (such as evaporator, servo's, fan motors, climate
head control) could equal the cost to upgrade your 85's present ac system. And then you have the other issues with with the later models, such as power steering rack, CEL, early model's that had coking, etc.

My non-daily driver Touareg is a total PITA with codes popping up, a lot of cheap
plastic; 'they don't make cars like they use to'.

Other than manually lifting a top up and down (I had to rebuild my elec top's drive system and tune it) you may find the 'easy to troubleshoot and repair' 85 might be worth keeping.
Drive it!

[agfours]

Originally Posted by porschenut

Are you sure the CEL coming on was due to clogged SAI ports?

No, and that was my mistake in assuming it was....(sigh) Lesson learned, and an important one at the dawn of my Porsche ownership, given the teutonic nature of these cars with no room for assumptions.

Originally Posted by kuehl

Paul,

To trade or not to trade? time to cash the chips in?

My 87 cab will freeze you out in TX and will leave any NA 993 in the dust ( I have a blower).
The cost to repair a C2/C4 or 993 ac system (such as evaporator, servo's, fan motors, climate
head control) could equal the cost to upgrade your 85's present ac system. And then you have the other issues with with the later models, such as power steering rack, CEL, early model's that had coking, etc.

Drive it!

Good points kuehl.

I would like to thank everyone again for their well articulated advice, and for propping me back up on the old school horse. I did have a little epiphany this weekend, and after reviewing the above comments, that it is not the car that I was growing tired of, but maybe rather the list of things I would like to do to get it perfect. The longer that list, the more I need motivation.

I replaced the tires and it got rid of two nagging things - wheel balance and slight pull to the right. I just have to remember that I can't do it all at once. A/C will come in time with money, and agree that all things considered, this is still the car I fell in love with 25+ years ago.

Going to do the Hill Country rally this weekend and that, I'm sure, will ensure I don't fall off the horse again anytime soon. Looks to be a nice bunch of old aircooled examples and looking forward to the POC support group (Porsche Obsessive Compulsive)

[whiterabbit]

I am another with an 84 and an Audi A4 daily driver. Great combination.

[porwolf]

[QUOTE=AlfonsoR;6609587]how about getting yourself a golf TDI as a DD and saving your 911 for weekends/ cool weather?


I agree fully. Keep the 911 for special occasions and get a comfortable DD. hat way driving the 911 everytime is almost liket the first experience all over again. And you save on upkeep and maintenance. Registration for older cars is almost negligible, at least here in California, and you can get a very favorable insurance rate as an occasionally driven second car.

Best of both worlds, hands down!