Built in fire suppression systems

[Chuck Moreland]

I decided to listen to my own advice. I just ordered a built in halon fire suppression system. The unit is made by Safety Systems, Inc and has two nozzles and a 5 lbs bottle.

The plan is to put one in the cabin and one in the engine bay.

However I am aware of some systems with three nozzles, and the third would go up by the tank.

Seeking opinions from those with experience here.

Seems to me that gas tank fires are much less common than engine fires. Putting a third nozzle up at the tank means less halon going into the cabin and engine (where the fire likely is).

So the two nozzle approach might be safer than three?

[emcon5]

Nothing constructive to add, except that I just read a blurb in an old Grassroots Motorsports about an AFFF fire supression system made by these guys:

http://www.spatechnique.com/extinguishers.html

Maybe our resident fire-tamer makaio can chime in on the merits of AFFF vs Halon.

Tom

[304065]

Well I've definitely BTDT- I just installed the Safety Devices AFFF system in my '71 the other night, here are my thoughts.

It's absolutely worth it; in a real crash if you are upside down, cannot exit the car and fuel from the ruptured cell has leaked all over the place and may be burning, a 2.5 pound halon bottle which will require you to unbuckle it, aim and shoot is just not realistic. I actually will carry a separate fire extinguisher on board for those situations in which I don't want to foam the entire car, e.g. stack fire. I figure if I can make one fewer mistake on the race track it's worth the weight penalty (and I have a minimum weight anyway).

Halon v. Foam: I went with Aqueous Film Forming Foam, which has been around for a while. Its advantages over Halon are that it displaces liquids (like fuel), it clings to surfaces (unlike a gas) and it won't asphyxiate you. That last thing doesn't seem like a big deal except that the Safecraft and other halon systems will require you to hold your breath before you hit the trigger- if it smothers the fire it can smother you also, and the AFFF system will flow foam for approximately 1 minute after activation, a long time to hold your breath if you are upside down and burning (see above). Disadvantages: it's a messy thing to clean up, but I wouldn't expect to have more than 1 activation per car, and it strikes me that cleaning up after an impact/fire will be a heck of a lot more involved than hosing off the foam residue.

The Safety Devices system (about $500 from Stable Energies) is very easy to install: there's a big red bottle about the size of a six-pack that bolts to the car: I put mine between the seats over the access panel for the shifter coupling; actually bolted it to the cover and then screwed the cover in place. This will allow me to read the pressure gauge before a race and verfy that I have 9 Bar system pressure. The lines are VERY easy to bend; they are plastic coated aluminum, and come with FOUR dischargers and very simple slip-fit "Y" adapters. You cut the line, re-form the end and insert it into the adapter and you're done. For mounting the lines the system includes nylon cable clamps, but I went with stainless cushion clamps and stainless screws everywhere.

So in my setup there's an 8mm line that comes out of the bottle and runs forward down the tunnel to a Y connection; one side goes to an aluminum bracket that I fabricated and screwed to the knee bolster under the dash, between the driver's legs; the other tube goes to a flat bracket that is mounted at the rear of the trunk, on one of the brackets that used to hold the cover for the heater flapper boxes (that cardboard thing that always breaks). The foam will take the path of least resistance, e.g. the shortest run with the fewest bends in it with the biggest nozzle. The "cockpit" nozzles (the kit includes 2) are larger in diameter; the "engine" nozzles are a little smaller (2 included). So the driver gets more foam than the fuel cell. The other side of the Y feeds a nozzle for the passenger/instructor and an "engine" nozzle mounted in the front of the engine compartment- that will foam the injection stacks.

So it's up to you how to allocate the foam; my thought was, forget the car, protect the driver and passenger, but on reflection, fires in the engine compartment (most common) can lead to fires in the whole car; and fires in the fuel cell area caused by the electrical system are probably a bad idea, so I covered all three. But the driver gets the most foam based on routing of the lines and nozzle size.

The system is fired by an ELECTRIC trigger that has its own 9-volt battery. I mounted a shielded pushbutton switch in the dash, immediately to the right of the steering column, behind the wiper stalk. That way I'm not likely to inadvertently trigger the system, but can still reach the fire button while strapped tightly into the seat. The firing box I attached to the glove box door with velcro- makes it convenient to test the battery and continuity for the fire switch. I have not yet come up with a way to mount an external switch; maybe in the hole where the antenna is.

Total install time including thinking about where to put stuff and fabricating the brackets was about 4 hours.

[Jack Olsen]

I'm ordering the three nozzle kit from www.lindseyracing.com . Gas tank fires aren't common, but dash fires are. And so are front fuse box meltdowns. Both of those types of fire have access to the front trunk, and the gas fumes that could be mixing up around there. I don't see any downside to the three nozzle models. And if conserving halon is your goal, you can get a larger tank. At Lindsey, the 5-pounder is $335 and the 10-pounder is $525. Not a bad one-time investment, if it saves your car.


http://www.lindseyracing.com/halon2.htm

[makaio]

This is a tough decision, because they both have their merits. So I'll list the pro's and con's of each. But first, if I was going to install a system, I would get the 10lb tank, & 3 nozzle's. Fire suppression can be compared to horse power, you can never have to much!

Halon Pro's:
No mess
works on energized electrical fires (dash fire while your driving)
you only have to service it every 12 years, if you don't use it

con's:
They say it's bad for the environment
expensive, & only going to get more expensive
displaces O2, so it's hard to breath.
Doesn't work as good on fuel fires

AFFF's pro's:
less expensive (for the product)
non harmfull to environment
works really good on flammable & combustible liquids (fuel,oil,etc.)

con's:
doesn't work on energized electrical fires
makes a great mess
has to be serviced more often

I'm sure there are more pro's and con's of each, but those are the biggies.

After typing this, I think I would go with the Halon. I know I have bad mouthed it, when it comes to hand held extinguishers, but it is a good product. I was flying in our ( actually all of ours from california) helicopter once when it had a fuel line fire, and the on board Halon system did a great job of saving my a$$ at 3,000 FT. A.G.L.

[addictionMS]

a couple fo quick additions, the inside the cockpit nozzle should not be pointed a the driver, but at the open space around the driver. the idea is to supress the fire around the driver not on the driver, there should be very little that can burn on/at the driver. Second, I have yet to do this, but also add a small ABC to the cockpit, atleast in CA many of the fires start in an off track adventure and are grass fires under the car, which a build in system will not stop until too late.

check out the web site below for a lot of fire and safety info.

http://www.bellmotorsports.com/

here is an exerpt

"WARNING: IS SFI-5 ENOUGH?
So that everyone basically understands safety burn ratings, here are some facts:
SFI-1= 13 seconds, SFI-5 =19 seconds, TPP, the Industry standard.
EXAMPLE: A brand new SFI-1,one layer proban (or nomex) suit without underwear might have a TPP, under ideal conditions of 13 seconds. (In reality, due to wear, impurities, etc., closer to 9.5.) ALARM, that is the awareness of heat, would occur in 3.1 seconds. PAIN would occur in 3.4 seconds, and actual BURN would start at 6.5 seconds - under ideal conditions. Cut those times in half for a worn suit, or one with oil residue stains. (Underwear would add some additional safety margin) These are the same standards used for the Fire Fighting Industry, and the Military. (Military pilots and firefighters are all required to wear fire retardant underwear) The difference is, a jet pilot can hit the ejection seat, and a fireman can retreat. A race driver cannot: he must first bring his car to a stop, unbuckle, then clear the window net or cowling. (Note that even at 50 mph., all time is used just to bring the car to a stop.)"