Input and Poll 3.2 Carrera vs RS America

[Rainking]

All,

I am torn with a decision and could use your help. I have a beautiful black on black 87 3.2 Targa with 46k and is in great condition. Over the last year I have been thinking about buying the 93 RS America. I can't afford both so...there is the question. Should I make the switch? I know of a RS that has 18k miles and would be about $10k more. As I make this decision, I find I am asking myself a few questions:

Why is the 964 platform so unpopular?
Is the RS worth the extra money?
Has anyone ever owned one and regretted selling it?
They are clearly holding and gaining in value. Could they go way higher down the road?
I don't have time to DIY so I am not too concerned with maintenance. I do like the fact that is is a variant and less common. Also seems to be slightly faster. Never driven one and it is not exactly close to test drive at the moment.

Thanks for the input!

[oh snap]

I'd take the RSA. Its not the car the euro RS was but it is still rare and desireable. If you can get it with that low mileage (and none of the problems associated with that low mileage) I'd say its a deal at +10k over your targa.

The lack of love for 964s is unjust I think. Maybe because it was more plush than the 3.2 or because the bumpers were "ugly" or because of reliability. Certainly 3.2s were more plush than SCs, and SCs were more plush than midyears and so on. None of them were bad cars. Impact bumpers aren't the most aesthetic styling cue ever, and every 911 needs to pass a PPI to be safe.

The RSAs will continue to hold their value IMO. All the limited 911s seem to. Its worth extra money but only you can decide "how much more."

[Onefastman]

RSA is a really neat car and I think will shoot up in value in the coming years like the speedsters have.

[Dublinoh]

Personally the 964 was not appealing to me because I didn't care for the wheels (and somewhat the bumpers). Just missed the Fuchs look. I think the RS switch for +$10K would be a good move. You may enjoy this if you haven't seen it:

RSAmerica.net: Home Page: What is an RS America?

[RWebb]

the 964 platform is unpopular because it looks like a blobmobile and has superior performance abilities which detract from the pure "connected to the road" feel of the 911

it also lost a lot of followers when the highly superior 993 was introduced

whatever you get, strip the car down to the basics & drive the hell out of it

[Rainking]

Thanks for the feedback. They are certainly hard to find. Had heard the engines have an issue. Sound familiar?

[sennasixty8]

Dual mass flywheels were a significant detractor to Porsche enthusiasts, along with the 993 stealing most of the final air-cooled thunder.

RSA is a wise choice, if it checks out (ppi,etc)

[911dean]

I've really have taken a liking to 964s lately and really like the RSAs. I think it would ba a great car to own.
On a second note. I was at a Chicago PCA concourse today and saw a really outstanding 964. My wife even really liked it.
Dean

[jdbunda]

I have to speak up for the 3.2, especially as a former 993 owner. I think the 964 is a step up in ownership cost. Like the 993, many of the parts are unique to the model series, (especially the expensive ones) and due to the relatively low production numbers, hard to source except through Porsche. I sold my 993 in frustration, and after the headaches and $$$ surprises of that car, it took me a while to revive my powers of rationalization to buy my Carrera. RSAs are cool though, good luck with your decision!!

[Manny Alban]

Thanks to popularity of the 993 and 3.2 carreras, the 964 is one hell of a bargain. Got mine fairly cheap and it's been incredibly reliable. Just hit 138K miles coming back from an event at Watkins Glen. Comfortable, climate control heat and working AC, lots of power when you need, etc. I was told by a member of the German Porsche club that the 964's and 993's are very desirable in Germany because they are the last of the air cooled. I would have loved to have gotten an RSA, but with regular 964 pricing, you can almost buy 2 for the price of a RSA....quite a polar shift from when they were new and the RSA was the less expensive version of the fully equipped C2.

[Bill Verburg]

The only particularly nice thing about 964RSA vs a regular 964C2 is that the RSA was available w/o sunroof. Otherwise they are the same cars as the suspension, engine and brakes are the same on both

That said 964 is a sweet spot for value

[DGW]

I like the looks of the 964. I have an RSA with around 170000 miles on it and I am not seeing any engine or transmission issues. I also have a 77 and an 83 911 so I can experience both looks.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Otherwise they are the same cars as the suspension, engine and brakes are the same on both

Well, not exactly... The RSA had the optional M030 suspension and turbo wheels. It also had a manual steering rack. Not saying you couldn't bolt all of those parts on a regualr C2...

I'd have already pulled the trigger on this car, if it were my choice. I have had a couple targas, including a 3.2 Carrera targa, and I find them nice for cruising back home from a restaurant late at night, with the top off, the 4 months out of the year that the weather is actually nice enough here for that. That's about it ... As a driver's car, I find them wanting, compared to the coupes I've owned.

This thing will feel like a rocketship compared to your current car. Plus, it will do better long term as an investment. Can't go wrong...

JR

[gregwils]

It really isn't a fair comparison. A 50k mile 3.2 with a G50 is going to be mid-upper $20's. An RSA with similar mileage is going to be mid-upper $30's, see some even higher. The RSA is a nice car, but other than a few suspension tweaks - same drivetrain - there isn't much difference between that and a regular 964.

If I already owned an RSA, I would be happy, but if I were buying, I would either save the $10k+ and buy a nice 3.2 w/G50 or buy a decent 993. I like the RSA's, just don't think they are worth the premium.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by javadog

Well, not exactly... The RSA had the optional M030 suspension and turbo wheels. It also had a manual steering rack. Not saying you couldn't bolt all of those parts on a regualr C2...

...
JR

Which can be had on a C2 or C4 too, not there there is anything to rave about wrt the US M030 package, it's still too high and soft, at least the RoW M030 is reasonably lowered.

As to wheels, you really want 8 to 8.5" front and 9.5 to 10" rears anyway, the RS only used 7.5 and 9" and the Cups 8 and 9.5" and the RSA only 7 and 8"

As to the manual rack most do not consider that a plus, even w/ p/s these things are a bear on a big track, the quickest sharpest steering is w/ the 993 normal p/s rack

[500_19B]

If that RSA is really an 18K mile car (with the condition to back it up) and you can get into it for only an incremental $10K, then that is a very compelling value.

Although everything discussed above is true (regarding the differences between a conventional C2 and the RSA), the RSA continues to command strong market values and is a little bit collectable.

I would think an 18K mile car (assuming it is in great shape) would be asking well above $40K though... $50K not out of the question... Are you sure your Targa can fetch over $30K?

[Scott R]

I have to wonder if this is a Grand Prix white with AC and a factory radio because my RSA ended up near where you live and with about 15k on the clock when I sold it a few years back. Loved that car but it had no place in the mountains where I lived at the time.

[kandhmfg]

Having owned both, and foolishly selling my RSA years ago to buy an '87, which then a couple years later I sold to go for an early small bumper car, I say the RSA. Can you say Porsche ADHD.

Even gutting the '87 and doing a couple of mods/chip, it paled in comparison power/torque wise to the RSA in seat of the pants. The A/C (mine had it), worked great in the RSA. I D/E'd, autocrossed, street drove both. The RSA was a more comfortable driving car, I like the transmission better also. I did upgrade mine to the L/W flywheel vs. Dual Mass. I could take it on a 1500 mile road trip, to the racetrack, through the cones or out to dinner it was great at all functions. My wife like it the best of all the Porsches we have owned.

It is the one car I say I should never have sold. Now too many other 911 projects to go back. If you are going to go 964, probably go for just a C2 as I think the power steering is very beneficial as Bill V. stated, and the rest of the car is pretty much the same. The money you save you can put into some upgrades on suspension, etc.

Good luck

[RWebb]

still in doubt? an RS-A is much more rare than a black on black 87 3.2 Targa with 46k in great condition

OTOH, any 964 is heavy and has fat tires, and a blobby body - all those things can be changed - and you may like the better stick but duller turn-in of fat tires, but you should not hack up an RS-A

- if you do say an early car mod on a 964 like that Nashville guy did, then do it on a regular 964

try to drive them both over the same roads back to back

[AlfonsoR]

Ownership is a very personal experience. To really tell if you like it, I don't think you can count on other's opinions, you will have to own it.

I think you should buy the RSA, if for anything, to get it out of your system. Like you said, they are holding their value and will probably go up. If later you change your mind and want to go back to Carrera land, then you shouldn't be out any money.

One thing that sticks out in my mind of things I've read about the RSA is that it's got a fairly harsh ride. Just what I recall reading, might be totally off, but maybe worth paying particular attention to, especially if it will be a DD.