Another Newbie asking questions on Backdating and Hot Rods.

[Paul Y]

Gentlemen,

Always poor form to turn up at a new playground without an invite from a grown up so please excuse me.

So as way of introduction a quick paragraph before jumping into my question,
Been around Porsche for 20 years but lost interest around 2006 due to the usual, work, kids, money, excuses. During that time had a real cross section from a 993 4s, 993 Turbo S, 993 RS, Mk1 GT3, Mk2 GT3 and finally a 996GT3RS, plus a fair amount of time ‘playing’ in Cup Cars. Plus had my fair share of American muscle and classics and built a few proper hot rods as well.

So with that cleared up why am I turning from a lurker into one of those annoying single post people with a question?

Simple really, it is time I got back into a proper car and, via a link to Magnus’s blog find myself enthused and, well, here.

My question then. What is a suitable platform to build a ‘backdated Hot Rod’ from and yes I have used the search function and read what has been posted. I am afraid this is where my lack of knowledge around the original 911’s really shows. I am keen to recreate a 73 RS, RS or even maybe an R, as there is no way I have the funds to purchase an original, plus I like getting my hands dirty.

I have the option of 2 vehicles as my potential base, one being a 82 CS and the other a 91 964 both of which have seen better days but are structurally sound and rust free.

Can I really take a 964 and make it into a 73, interior included? Is it worth buying a shell and going the whole hog or purchase a running car and build it from there? As my experience is with the newer 911 is should I go with Carbs, EFi, 6 speed, G50 or 915?

What I am looking for I suppose is for someone to take me under their wing and point me in the right direction to gain as much knowledge and information as possible before I embark on this rather exciting adventure.

In no tearing hurry but would like to plan ahead to avoid costly mistakes or doing something thing that is just plain, wrong.

Any and all comments and assistance greatly appreciated.

P.

[mrm930]

Do the 91. Newer technology in suspension and better electronics. However first check with some of the fiberglass or carbon fiber body parts suppliers to see if these will work. If these parts will work then all steel should also fit.

Note that Singer Design uses the 964 platform for their back dated cars. If you haven't as yet check out their site - you need to. Of course they are custom building altered CF body parts for their cars. Also check out Elephant Racing for their upgraded suspension for the 964 and 911.

After I get my slantnose restoration done, this is the first thing I want to get. A 964 C2 for backdating.

Good luck with your build.

Mark

[JEM911]

You can pretty much do whatever year you want to do... It all comes down to how much time your going to throw at it, and what level of detail do you want to achieve.

I'm building a similar car/concept with a 73 S/T styled look at the moment. I actually started with a 73T shell, which was very very rusty, and have proceeded to replace with CF panels etc. I'm running 993 3.6Vram and mainly 993 brakes / suspension components.

My other 911 was a 1978 Turbo which I've converted into a 1973RSR look... its not RSR perfect, but neither is the 993TT engine with it... But I did want a turbo shell for all the benefits off the shelf with a 'turbo shell'.

Anyway there are plenty of choices ahead of you. But I need to agree with the earlier post in principle. Start with the newest model you can...

J

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Paul Y

Gentlemen,

Always poor form to turn up at a new playground without an invite from a grown up so please excuse me.

So as way of introduction a quick paragraph before jumping into my question,
Been around Porsche for 20 years but lost interest around 2006 due to the usual, work, kids, money, excuses. During that time had a real cross section from a 993 4s, 993 Turbo S, 993 RS, Mk1 GT3, Mk2 GT3 and finally a 996GT3RS, plus a fair amount of time ‘playing’ in Cup Cars. Plus had my fair share of American muscle and classics and built a few proper hot rods as well.

So with that cleared up why am I turning from a lurker into one of those annoying single post people with a question?

Simple really, it is time I got back into a proper car and, via a link to Magnus’s blog find myself enthused and, well, here.

My question then. What is a suitable platform to build a ‘backdated Hot Rod’ from and yes I have used the search function and read what has been posted. I am afraid this is where my lack of knowledge around the original 911’s really shows. I am keen to recreate a 73 RS, RS or even maybe an R, as there is no way I have the funds to purchase an original, plus I like getting my hands dirty.

I have the option of 2 vehicles as my potential base, one being a 82 CS and the other a 91 964 both of which have seen better days but are structurally sound and rust free.

Can I really take a 964 and make it into a 73, interior included? Is it worth buying a shell and going the whole hog or purchase a running car and build it from there? As my experience is with the newer 911 is should I go with Carbs, EFi, 6 speed, G50 or 915?

What I am looking for I suppose is for someone to take me under their wing and point me in the right direction to gain as much knowledge and information as possible before I embark on this rather exciting adventure.

In no tearing hurry but would like to plan ahead to avoid costly mistakes or doing something thing that is just plain, wrong.

Any and all comments and assistance greatly appreciated.

P.

While a 964 can be made to mostly look like a '73 911 you will never be able to overcome the wheel o/s issue, 911 through '89 used low o/s wheels and + scrub radius, 964 and newer all use high o/s wheels and - scrub radius, to me a 964 done to look like a '73 just doesn't look right the exception being Singers
Singer went more w/ an RSR look though, and the spokes of the wheels are still not quite right
964 chassis Singer


The '82 is at least essentially the same chassis as a '73 RS and onlly the front fenders and f/r bumpers need to be changed, TRE has a # of these conversions running around and the look great.

[PcarPhil]

If you go wide (ala ST or RSR) I don't think the 964 front wheel offset is an issue. I think that 964-based Singer looks fine, front wheels and all.

If you are going narrow (RS) then yes the 964 backdates tend to look a bit funky.

The 964 is a great platform except I'm not sure I'd want to backdate a nice one. A wrecked one... maybe...

It's easy to backdate a '74-'89 911 chassis (with late '86-'89 a wee bit more difficult). Backdating a 964 is a lot more involved. Plus there are many more '74-'89 donors available vs. '89-'94 donors.

However if it's your car then do whatever you want!

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

While a 964 can be made to mostly look like a '73 911 you will never be able to overcome the wheel o/s issue, 911 through '89 used low o/s wheels and + scrub radius, 964 and newer all use high o/s wheels and - scrub radius, to me a 964 done to look like a '73 just doesn't look right the exception being Singers
Singer went more w/ an RSR look though, and the spokes of the wheels are still not quite right
964 chassis Singer


The '82 is at least essentially the same chassis as a '73 RS and onlly the front fenders and f/r bumpers need to be changed, TRE has a # of these conversions running around and the look great.

[Paul Y]

Wow! Thanks for the replies.

Love the look of the Silver car, my version would be slightly more...raw... I suppose as at heart I am just an old racer.

The 82 I am looking at has had front end damage and been repaired to a good standard, the tub is undamaged and whilst apart for repair some minor rust repairs were attended too. This is a 3.2 G50 equipped car and is very affordable allowing me to make the modifications I desire over a shorter time period than the 964 simply due to the lower entry point.

looking at the Silver car again I think I would have a half cage, centre fill fuel tank, loose the sun roof and go for a black interior.

Other than that dont bother to wrap it I will take it as it is...

As an after thought, are there any other sites or forums I should be looking at for inspiration?

Many thanks,

P.

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by Paul Y

The 82 I am looking at has had front end damage and been repaired to a good standard, the tub is undamaged and whilst apart for repair some minor rust repairs were attended too. This is a 3.2 G50 equipped car and is very affordable allowing me to make the modifications I desire over a shorter time period than the 964 simply due to the lower entry point.

As long as the chassis is straight that sounds like a great foundation for a 911 backdate.

Pelican probably has the most info on backdates right here in this forum. Do a search for "backdate" or "longhood+backdate" and I'm sure you'll find hours of reading.

Good luck! Post some pics of the '82 donor car!

[PcarPhil]

Oh yeah... I'll start you off with a link to my own backdate project:

My 1977 911 S widebody backdate project

[Elombard]

FWIW the 82 from the factory had the 3.0 and 915 gear box. The 3.2 and G50 were 87-89.

[wayner]

Here is the mother load...

These were pretty inspirational as I started into my project to save the 73 from the crusher.


Post pics of 1973 Carrera RSR replicas here...

New project - ST tDf - TRE (this one gets really good around page 3)

Black Beauty II

The Journey Begins- 911ST recreation

SAMSON scheme 911ST build is finished!

DZug SC to RSR 3 month Speed Build

Robs 911ST Cafe' Racer

Reaper 935 'RSR' Project

RSR rear chassis mods - some photos thanks to PORSCHE DOC / TYSON, etc.

RSR Update

New 2.8 RSR Evocation

1978 to 1973 RSR Build Project

My Backdated Hot Rod Project is Underway!

Another RSR build - The begining

RSR Conversion - Part 2 - The build

Saving a 73 from the crusher...

[Paul Y]

Scott, that is right on the money, love it.

Anyone else got any links to their projects? Seen quite a few now but more always help when you are trying to self educate....

P.

[Paul Y]

Above posted before I saw Wayners post.

Time for some light reading me thinks....

P.

[wayner]

Here is another famous thread for when you get tired of the plane jane look of an RSR

Zuffenhaus 935 K3 Build for Fünf Gruppen

[ERH]

Here is one that started as a C2.

zuffenhaus C2 to '72 RSR project...

[redridge]

very well documented... 964 ---> 74 RSR

9m11RS-R - creation of a modern icon - '74 3.0RSR on 9m64RS platform - Rennlist Discussion Forums