Window Power Conversion To Manual

Number1_dog · 07-03-2012, 04:44 AM

I am in the process of converting my 1979 911Sc from Electric to Manual windup using parallel arm regulators. When I was cleaning up the parts I put the window lifter rail in the same place as it was with the electric regulator about in the middle of the window with the same space showing on either side. I got the whole thing together and as I lowered the window it came off of the lifter rail. I took the regulator out and found that it was longer than the electric regulator. I do not see different lifter rails for manual v. electric, so am I to assume that I have to move the lifter rail to the back of the window and not center it?

wholio94112 · wholio94112's Garage

...would love to make the same conversion, so i'm following this post, hoping it doesn't get any more tedious...

javadog · 07-03-2012, 05:37 AM

88mm from the front corner of the glass to the front edge of the guide channel, for a coupe. Targas are different.

JR

47silver · 47silver's Garage

Did the manual regulators bolt in to the existing mounting posts?

javadog · 07-03-2012, 06:03 AM

The mounting points are the same.

JR

Number1_dog · 07-03-2012, 09:00 AM

Javadog

thanks, it had been set for about 1 1/2 inches from the edge of the glass.
dog

Number1_dog · 07-04-2012, 10:40 AM

Got everything together and the passenger side window works, but the manual regulator makes clicking noises (I think the teeth are not fully engaging) when winding the window up. I purchased the left and right manual regulators a few years ago and was told " I think they work" when I purchased them. I know you can replace the spring holder and the plastic slides, but is there anything I can do about the gear? or should I look for another Passenger side regulator? I had a feeling that the passenger side one wasn't 100%.

Oh, but the way I weighed the manual regulator ( using the weigh me first then weight me and the regulator together) and the electric regulator and electric motor and I came up with the Electric being 2 lbs heaver.

dog

Reiver · 07-04-2012, 05:32 PM

"Oh, but the way I weighed the manual regulator ( using the weigh me first then weight me and the regulator together) and the electric regulator and electric motor and I came up with the Electric being 2 lbs heaver."

Was that two pounds per unit @ 4 lbs overall savings or 2 lbs diff for both units together?

MumfordLa · 06:01 PM

I purchased the left and right manual regulators a few years ago and was told

javadog · 07-05-2012, 04:48 AM

I can't say what the clicking sound might be. I assume you lubed the regulators with grease before putting them in. I hate to suggest it but you might pull it back out and have a look at what it's doing. I may have a pair of manual parallel arm regulators laying around if you decide to replace yours.

As for the weight issue, let me say that it's a little complicated. Electric regulators are heavier than manual ones, but you have to compare like units (from the same era). For instance:

Early electric motors are heavier than later ones.
Parallel arm regulators (either type) are heavier than cross arm regulators.
Targa and cabriolet regulators are heavier than those from a coupe.
Later glass supports are slightly heavier than early ones.

As an example, I'm replacing the older style electric regulators from a 77 Carrera 3.0 coupe with manual cross arm regulators. Including the different glass supports, switches and wiring, my total weight savings will be around 7 lbs. My guess is the 2 lbs. quoted above is per regulator.

JR

Number1_dog · 07-05-2012, 06:21 AM

Javadog

I have a 1979 911SC and so my electric regulators were parallel arms and the replacement manual ones were also parallel arm. I ordered a light weight digital scale from e-bay to get a more accurate reading, but I would assume that two electric regulators and two motors are at least 4 lbs heavier than 2 manual regulators.

I believe that it is just the passenger side regulator that is not working correctly. I haven't put in the driver side one yet, but it operates better that the passenger side one did when it was outside of the car. I am thinking that the inside teeth on the winding handle shaft (un-viewable) may be worn and under load, raising the window, they slip (clicking). Would you sell just the passenger side?

dog

javadog · 07-05-2012, 07:05 AM

You should be able to see the teeth on the shaft, if you look at them from the side in good light. You probably can't see the teeth very well when it's installed on the car, which is why I suggested removing it. I can't imagine wear on the teeth of the gear, especially if the teeth on the other part look okay. But then, I haven't made a career out of examining window regulators, either. Have you replaced the pivot pin? You sure the noise doesn't originate there? From your description of the problem it's clear that there is a noise but I am not sure if you can see the window itself stop moving or drop slightly when the noise occurs. I suppose if it does it at the same point at every revolution of the crank handle, it has to be the small gear...

I was planning on selling the regulators in the future, I just hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'd prefer to sell the pair, as selling one would orphan the other one and the biggest market would seem to be with people doing what you are doing, going from electric to manual. Send me a PM if you want.

Thanks,
Jeff

Number1_dog · 07-05-2012, 07:25 AM

Jeff

You are right the visible gears on the arm are not in bad shape so one would assume the window crank gears are also OK

The only external difference between the Drivers side and the Passenger side manual regulator is that the passenger side pivot pin was half broken off, but it still kept the spring in tension. Could a little loss in tension in the spring cause the problem?

To replace the pivot pin that I assume I grind off the peened over end of the pin? The replacement pin I see has a hole for a screw to hold it in.

Thanks for you time
dog

javadog · 07-05-2012, 07:53 AM

Every one of these I've seen, mine included, have a bad pivot pin. I don't think the loss in tension has any bearing on the problem but maybe the spring is slipping on the pivot when it turns. I would think that if you could feel the slipping, or hear a clicking noise, you could see something moving if you looked at it closely when operating it. Usually things that can be felt or heard can be seen as well.

The only way to remove the pivot pin is to grind the end off, carefully. There's a how-to technical article here on Pelican, in the tech info center (tab on top of this page).

JR

Number1_dog · 07-05-2012, 08:14 AM

Jeff

I couldn't find a tech article on the pivot pin replacement, but you confirmed what I thought I had to do. I have gotten so good at taking the regulator out and putting it back in that one more time will not kill me. I'll pull it and replace the pivot pin and hopefully that will end my problems.

Again, than you for you time.

dog

javadog · 07-05-2012, 08:58 AM

This is a useful thread with some good links:

Window Regulator

JR

Tippy · 07-05-2012, 11:10 AM

Ok, scratch "install manual window regulators" off the list after reading the weight difference.

javadog · 07-05-2012, 11:45 AM

Why? 7lbs isn't nothing... and we haven't lightened the regulators yet, which is planned and pretty easy to do...

That's the thing about making a car lighter. After you do the dozen things that save you 20-30 pounds each, you're down to a few pounds here, a few pounds there... It does add up.

JR

Number1_dog · 07-10-2012, 11:13 AM

Received my E-bay Digital Scale and for pre 1980 Parallel Window Regulators the weight savings by going with Manual Regulators is 2.6 Lbs per side for a total of 5.2 lbs. That is the weight of the Manual regulator (4 lbs) v. the weight of the Electric regulator and the electric motor (6.6 lbs).

Jeff The only 26 mm pivot pin replacement that PelicanParts carries that has a screw in the bottom does not match the configuration of the pin in my regulators. My regulators have the rectangular base going east /west with the slot going North/ South. Do i get the pin without the screw and drill/tap one in, or does the 90% difference make a difference?

Reiver · 07-10-2012, 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=Number1_dog;6849474]Received my E-bay Digital Scale and for pre 1980 Parallel Window Regulators the weight savings by going with Manual Regulators is 2.6 Lbs per side for a total of 5.2 lbs. That is the weight of the Manual regulator (4 lbs) v. the weight of the Electric regulator and the electric motor (6.6 lbs).

Every pound counts if you are getting down to a serious deletion. Thanks for the precise weight.
I'm considering a nylon pull strap window lift and deleting all of the 'guts' using a motorcycle tie down as a donar. The webbing is thin and only 1 in wide. The thumb pinch holders would make fine up/down adjusters as rated for 1200 lbs ea.
Would be easy to make it look clean with RS door panels.