New to classic 911's and need some help getting started

[Bassalt997tt]

Hi guys/gals, I'm a big auto enthusiast and have up to now stuck with late model performance cars. I've hung around here for a bit seeing the kinds of things to watch for and admiring Magnus' car porn

So, here's the story. I didn't go on vacation earlier this month with the intent of looking for a car, but it just happens that a friend of my brother-in-law is going through some "life changes" and is selling his 1988 911. He is the original owner, has put 40,900mi on the car and has serviced it at the same place it was purchased just down the road in northern NJ since new. It's a Guards Red over black base 911 with full leather and upgraded suspension from the factory. Overall, it looks to be a 9/10 int and ext driver (not a show car). Starts right up and drives well. He claims nothing has ever failed/broken on the car and it has never been modified/hit/painted (bother-in-law vouches for him). That's good and bad: probably well cared for and not abused, but also a lot waiting to break on me

The seller seems to just want it to go to an enthusiast who will car for and keep it like he did. I'm not sure what it's worth- please help. My camera malfunctioned and below is the best I got... thanks for the help

[Bassalt997tt]

Any ideas guys?

[porwolf]

Looks like a great opportunity. I, myself have a 79 SC that I bought new at the time and has 50k miles. It starts, idles and drives still as new. The Porsche Club valuation is $25,000 for which it is insured. Just to give you my perspective.

[darrin]

88 Carreras are great cars, but have a few issues that should be checked out by a porsche shop other than the one that serviced the car by having a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) performed before pulling the trigger. Two issues come to mind -- 1) many carreras suffer from premature valve guide wear, which results in excessive oil consumption and, if not repaired could cause valve (catstorphic engine) failure. To repair this, one must drop the engine and rebuild the heads (a few thousand dollar commitment). Consuming a quart of oil or more every thousand miles CAN indicate that this is an issue, as can a leakdown/compression test during a PPI. 2) early G50 transmissions had another issue that required an update to repair -- I have an '86 carrera with a 915 transmission and cannot provide more clarification on this issue.

My carrera required a top end rebuild at 80k miles and is running a-ok at 150k . . .

I live in colorado, so I can't give you recommendations on a good northern NJ shop for a PPI, but I'm sure you'll get some good recommendations of where to go and what to avoid if you post here. I'd also ask the shop their thoughts on local value for the car once they've looked at it and use their findings to drive purchase price.

I think you'll find that the very low mileage may be a bit of a detriment (these cars LOVE to be driven), but that once you work through age-related quirks, it'll give you much love. I don't plan on giving mine up until I forget how to drive stick . . .

[kevin-ct]

I have just purchased two 911's last month.

One is a 87 Coupe with 53K paid $19K The other is a 86 Coupe with 108K with upgraded suspension and wheels. paid $22K
I liked the 86 better then the 87, so I gave 87 it to my brother.

BTW, If you don't buy this 911. please P.M me and I'll take it.

Kevin

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by kevin-ct

BTW, If you don't buy this 911. please P.M me and I'll take it.

Kevin

You, sir, have an illness.

To the OP, '88 is one of the desirable model years, as you probably know. They say every 911 is a $20K car. Either you pay less and then spend the difference making it nice, or you pay more up front and less post-purchase. Not that this is necessarily true with every car for sale, but it's a decent rule of thumb to consider. It's always worthwhile to get a PPI on something like this. Don't get the PPI at the place where the car is serviced; every shop says they're objective, but in the end their allegiance is more likely going to be with the customer that's spent thousands of dollars with them over the years as opposed to some guy purchasing from a distance. There are a couple decent buying guides out there: Leffingwell has one; Peter Zimmerman (fellow Pelican) has written one; and there's the Red Book by Patrick Paternie. If you know someone with back issues of Excellence magazine, each month (in the past, at least) has had a buyer's guide for specific model years with things to look for and price ranges by year. It's worthwhile to post candidates you've found here; people will think of a million things to look for you haven't thought of no matter how thorough you think you've been.

[Bassalt997tt]

Thanks for the continued feedback and advice. Car has never had anything done to it, not repairs, no updates/valves/etc. The guy puts gas in and drives (though not much over the last 5yrs). The nearby dealer is the one the car was originally purchased, then maintained at, so this is a concern for the PPI. The car is nice and I think I can pick it up cheap... maybe just forget about the PPI since the price leaves room for repairs?

[dcjones56]

Originally Posted by Noah930

To the OP, '88 is one of the desirable model years, as you probably know. They say every 911 is a $20K car. Either you pay less and then spend the difference making it nice, or you pay more up front and less post-purchase. Not that this is necessarily true with every car for sale, but it's a decent rule of thumb to consider. It's always worthwhile to get a PPI on something like this. Don't get the PPI at the place where the car is serviced; every shop says they're objective, but in the end their allegiance is more likely going to be with the customer that's spent thousands of dollars with them over the years as opposed to some guy purchasing from a distance. There are a couple decent buying guides out there: Leffingwell has one; Peter Zimmerman (fellow Pelican) has written one; and there's the Red Book by Patrick Paternie. If you know someone with back issues of Excellence magazine, each month (in the past, at least) has had a buyer's guide for specific model years with things to look for and price ranges by year. It's worthwhile to post candidates you've found here; people will think of a million things to look for you haven't thought of no matter how thorough you think you've been.

Very sound advice. I highly recommend the The Used 911 Story by Mr. Peter Zimmermann and Mr. Randy Leffingwell's Porsche 911 Buyers Guide are the two you will really need. Get a PPI. Also, I am by no means advocating rennlist.com but Mr. Zimmermann did a thorough PPI list for you as a potential buyer under the 911 forum over there. I have tried to post a link below. I hope this helps and good luck!

911 PPI How-To? (I'm doing one, and need some advice)

Originally Posted by imcarthur

Pete Zimmermann posted the ultimate PPI on Rennlist HERE

Ian

Also, as a final note and just as ballbark figures on a PPI, I would say you would spend anywhere from $225.00 to $900.00 on a PPI depending on if a leak down test or compression test as well as to who is doing the PPI. In my time, I have paid any where from $230.00 at a Chicago Porsche dealer with no leak down or compression test to more than I am willing to admit. In other words, I am too ashamed to admit what I paid, but it did save me from heartaches. This is my own experience with several PPIs and by no means am I implying that $900.00 is the maximum for a PPI, but I would be very surprised if a PPi were cheaper than $225.00. This is just based on my experience of finding older 911s and having PPIs done and I never bought any of those cars. The ironic thing is once I found my Imogene, I did not even bother to have a PPI. Life is sometimes crazy like that, but I strongly recommend a PPI in this instance.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Bassalt997tt

maybe just forget about the PPI since the price leaves room for repairs?

Plenty on Pelican have done that. But FYI, have you priced an engine rebuild? You can spend 5 figures on one.

[javadog]

How cheap is "cheap"? When you say the guy never had anything done to it, you mean that apart from normal services, right?

I'm not seeing the pictures in your first post, got any more?

JR

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Bassalt997tt

He claims nothing has ever failed/broken on the car and it has never been modified/hit/painted (bother-in-law vouches for him).

It might still be prudent to check this by running a CARFAX. Good luck with the purchase.

[Bassalt997tt]

Thanks for all the help guys. I have seen the PPI list/sticky over at Rennlist and it will be very helpful. As for servicing the car: yes the guys seems to have really cared for it.

So, I finally took it for a full test drive this morning before catching a fight home. Starts right up from cold, no smoke, sounds good and runs very tight. I've never had a car w/o power steering, so this was new, but not too bad. Everything seems to work, but very little about the controls in these cars is intuitive (my 997 is the same way). Three things I noticed 1.) seems to have a wheel a little out of balance- easy fix since all tires are more than 5yrs old and need replacing 2.) gear shifter is tighter/harder to move than I expected- I thought it would move and engage more easily 3.) there is a little bit of play at the steering wheel (you can wiggle it some where it attaches) and this causes a rattle over bumps. Otherwise this thing is solid and does not rattle at all. Other notables- no leaks, all electronics work. Other than a few minor and fixable blemishes, looks like new.

Here is a link to flicker: scroll through as i cannot seem to get photos up here to show?
rear quarter | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Bassalt997tt]

Originally Posted by javadog

How cheap is "cheap"? When you say the guy never had anything done to it, you mean that apart from normal services, right?

Appears to be well cared for... cheap? Let's say well under $20k, haven't even gone there yet with the guy, but he's already starting low..

[GaryR]

If you are talking $15K area for a true low mile 88 just buy it... you really can't go wrong. New tires, new oils, new gas, and have a steering column bushing put in (cheap or DIY)..

[Bassalt997tt]

Originally Posted by GaryR

If you are talking $15K area for a true low mile 88 just buy it... you really can't go wrong. New tires, new oils, new gas, and have a steering column bushing put in (cheap or DIY)..

Hit 41k miles while driving today

Yes, I thought about offering $15k and forgetting about the ppi... Will prob get it donr though

[georgew123]

I live in Central NJ and was looking at cars in North Jersey during my purchase. I had difficulty getting a shop to do a ppi (scheduling and they didn't seem interested). I would agree with if you can "steal" it for under $15k, then I would just close the deal.