Dropped nut into engine

[coldstart]

As per the title, I have made the goofy error of dropping a small 6mm nut into the engine through the breather with the breather cover off during my recent engine pull and rehab. The engine is now back in the car.

I blame it on oily hands, rubber gloves, thick fingers and my own poor judgment of trying to size the nut with the breather cover off.


I did a search, lots of reading and attempted a few ideas from previous PP forum posts. I have:

(a) pulled the sump cover and filter;
(b) put a bendable magnetic retriever down the breather (as far as it would go);
(c) put the magnetic retriever in through the sump;
(d) poured oil down the breather in an attempt to push the nut out with oil through the sump; and
(e) shook the engine.

All without success. The next step will be rental of a borescope with a light.

Any other ideas????

Does anyone know what part of the engine the breather leads and where it would exit?

[Bob Kontak]

First pic in this thread shows a case nicely opened. I am thinking it will not interfere unless crushed between the crank and the case somehow but I have no experience. Not suggesting leaving it.

Porsche 911 2.0 aluminum engine case

Air hose may help but it may blow the nut to an area you do not want. Shop vac with a small flexi-hose rig?

[Flat6pac]

It will probably park behind the oil pump. A small bendable magnet through the oil drain access and go looking.
Bruce

[billjam]

Think about it! What harm can this nut possibly do once it has fallen into the bottom of the engine. Granted, not an ideal situation, but there's no chance of it doing any damage, especially at the front end of the engine (away from timing chains and intermediate shaft).
Turn the engine over by hand a few times to make sure it isn't jammed between crank and case, then get on with life.

[coldstart]

I have turned the engine over since while adjusting the valves. No issues.

I would preferably like to get it out of the engine-- to get rid of the extra weight 8-)

[ajwans]

Get it out. What do you think will happen when you are going uphill and it works itself back to where the intermediate shaft and timing chains are?

More than likely it will be captured around the drain plug, but I would not take the chance.

andy

[aigel]

If you look at it with the crank and rods installed, it isn't that pretty any more IMHO. There are places this can get stuck - what do you think?



How much time for you to split the case?

G

[kodioneill]

I would not leave it in the engine even if I had to remove it again. You'll never be comfortable and it may ruin your engine. Take the time to pull the engine and remove it.

[JJ 911SC]

Shop Vac.

Clean the canister (like brand new) before you start.

You can attach a smaller tube to the hose to feed in.

[billjam]

I know the internals are slightly different in your engine, but its basically the same as the pic below.
Once your nut has dropped past the crankshaft, it is in an area around the oil pump where it can't possibly interfere with anything rotating.
IF it manages to move backwards past or under the pump inlet filter under your warp factor 10 acceleration or climbing 45 degree mountains without getting caught on the plug magnet, it will come up against the baffle between the chain sprocket and the intermediate shaft gear, so it can never get into the space where the gear is running.
There is also no way a small M6 nut in a puddle of oil is going to leap off the bottom of the case and attack the chain and sprocket either. It's just physics!

Just drive it.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by billjam

Once your nut has dropped past the crankshaft........

Excellent picture.

What scares me is getting the nut to the bottom of the crankcase. Picturing the fully assembled engine the only place for the nut to drop is through the connecting rod journal area (just what I see and picture - not stating as fact). That is assuming it is sitting on top of one of the case bearing supports now.

If it can only go through the rod journal area and falls when the engine is running it will be hit and bounced around, potentially a bunch of times, increasing the chances of wedging somewhere.

I am hesitantly buying into your thoughts to leave it alone if it is laying next to the oil pump now.

I like the scope idea even to just make sure it is not on the top. HF Tools has one under $100. Never used one.

Wireless Inspection Camera - Great Deals on Wireless Inspection Cameras at Harbor Freight

[mb911]

Same exact thing happened to me on a 2.7 I had. I ran the engine for a few minutes at idle and then drained the oil and pulled the sump screen and there it was. no issues no damage. maybe luck?

[bdisco]

Dropped a washer into intake - innovative way to fish it out?

^ some ideas

[diverdan]

Washer in intake......blow it out with your air compressor. Usually works. In the sump....
no....lucky ben...think I'd hope for the same.
dan

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by coldstart

I have turned the engine over since while adjusting the valves. No issues.

I would preferably like to get it out of the engine-- to get rid of the extra weight 8-)

Agree completely....there is no way I would start that engine knowing that there is a loose nut in it somewhare. I would remove the sump plate and try looking from the bottom (assuming you don't have a later engine where there is no sump plate).

Also, be sure to use the magnet all around the engine, just in case it fell down the backside and you didn't see it.

[Christien]

What about replacing the sump plate/drain plug and filling it with oil, in the hopes that the nut will settle to the bottom and catch on the magnetic drain plug?

[56 nomad]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Excellent picture.

What scares me is getting the nut to the bottom of the crankcase. Picturing the fully assembled engine the only place for the nut to drop is through the connecting rod journal area (just what I see and picture - not stating as fact). That is assuming it is sitting on top of one of the case bearing supports now.

If it can only go through the rod journal area and falls when the engine is running it will be hit and bounced around, potentially a bunch of times, increasing the chances of wedging somewhere.

I am hesitantly buying into your thoughts to leave it alone if it is laying next to the oil pump now.

I like the scope idea even to just make sure it is not on the top. HF Tools has one under $100. Never used one.

Wireless Inspection Camera - Great Deals on Wireless Inspection Cameras at Harbor Freight

i was thinking the same thing when i looked at the diagram showing a predicted path....i am a eternal pessimist and wondered if the crank was turned 180 could the nut have fallen to the rear near the rod cap and the case, but having never pulled one apart was not sure.
have you tried to rotate it by hand...i would do it carefully and if you feel resistance well you know what to do then. you could back it off and go fishing the other way with the magnet. rotating it a number of times might give you the piece of mind that its not hanging up somewhere and then you can open the sump up again.
do you know anyone with small arms and hands that you could enlist if not bore scope is a good bet..harbor freights may not be the best.
try going into the bottom with a mirror and a halogen light might have luck with that.
tough when theres no consensus, but unless you can be 100% certain its not going to do any damage i would get it out of there..it might always be in the back of your mind. better safe than sorry.
jm2c, ben

[911pcars]

Ever try to fish a washer out of a bucket of bolts with a magnet?

Unfortunately, a permanent magnet is not too picky and will be attracted to whatever is magnetic nearby. This makes selective retrieving pretty difficult, especially performing this blind inside an engine case.

After exhausting all other schemes, it seems disassembling the crankcase is the only 100% solution to extract the loose nut.

I wonder if a very strong magnet on one side of the crankcase would be strong enough to attract and hold the M6 steel nut on the opposite side? A test could be performed pretty easily on a spare case. If this works, the outrageous strategy is to affix an array of neodyminium magnets onto the bottom of the crankcase thereby freezing the location of the errant nut inside. However, you'd also have to contend with attracting random pieces of steel passing by during normal engine operation.

Several electromagnets would be stronger and provide more ON-OFF control. How about a slim electro-magnetic probe/video camera tool? We're entering the world of micro-surgery and bizarre fixes at this point. I'd better call it quits.

Sherwood