SC vs Turbo rear wheel track

[Vereeken]

I will not bother you with the details but I need the forums help on solving an issue with the ever unfriendly and incompetent guys (?) at the Belgian MOT stations (they are civil servants in Belgium, nuff said).

Can someone tell me/show me how the total rear track of the 1982 Porsche Turbo is made up? So I am looking for the total rear track width (as per porsche specs) of the 1982 Porsche Turbo. So no customisations, bog standard.

I believe porsche used the SC track and enlarged that with spacers/adapters to come to the total turbo track.

Thanks already.

Michel

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Vereeken

I will not bother you with the details but I need the forums help on solving an issue with the ever unfriendly and incompetent guys (?) at the Belgian MOT stations (they are civil servants in Belgium, nuff said).

Can someone tell me/show me how the total rear track of the 1982 Porsche Turbo is made up? So I am looking for the total rear track width (as per porsche specs) of the 1982 Porsche Turbo. So no customisations, bog standard.

I believe porsche used the SC track and enlarged that with spacers/adapters to come to the total turbo track.

Thanks already.

Michel

1982 930 All, per Porsche
frt track 1432mm
rr track 1501mm

1982 SC RoW
frt track 1369mm
rr track 1379mm

[Vereeken]

Bill,

Thanks, but do you know how Porsche achieved the increase in track at the rear from the 1379 of the SC to the 1501 of the Turbo?

As far as I can tell from looking at photo's they achieved it by using the same length banana's but with spacers/extensions attached to the hubs...

So the points is that there was no other banana type in swing in the eighties specific to the Turbo (other then the other drill holes for accepting the larger turbo brakes....).

Unfortunately my knowlegde is sketchy....

Thanks for any help.

Michel

[winders]

Originally Posted by Vereeken

As far as I can tell from looking at photo's they achieved it by using the same length banana's but with spacers/extensions attached to the hubs...

So the points is that there was no other banana type in swing in the eighties specific to the Turbo (other then the other drill holes for accepting the larger turbo brakes....).

Michel,

The trailing arms used in the 930 and 911 were certainly different. The 930 part was shorter, had a different shape, was more stout, housed larger bearings, etc.

Scott

[Vereeken]

Ok Scott so do you know how they reached the 1501mm?

Because this is the essence of the problem.

I believe Porsche attained the 1501mm on the Turbo by using spacers /hub extenders from what I can see on the pictures.

The problem I have is that the MOT (without any background knowledge) assumes that you are not allowed to increase track on a 911 with adapters/spacers.

Now if it turns out that the 930 had trailing arms plus extenders from the factory their argument becomes irrelevant.

Michel

[Jbp]

28 mm weelspaicer from facktory in rear.



This is from a -79 930.

Jocke.

[Vereeken]

et voilà. Case closed. Just as I suspected.

I will put on my battle suit and go to our friends at the MOT...really irritating folks.

Michel

[winders]

Originally Posted by Vereeken

Just as I suspectedl

You suspected the trailing arms for the SC and Turbo were the same and the extra track came by way of spacers.

Only 28mm of the difference was spacers. The other 94mm came from the trailing arm setup.

Scott

[Vereeken]

Yes but their point being that wheelspacers are never allowed on Porsches also not from factory in the 77-83 years... As they say it is not allowed to modify tracks with wheelspacers.

They did not even bother to measure track let alone that they now what the track actually is.

If they would care to measure my track they would notice that it actually falls within specs (taking into account 2% deviation as legally entitled.)

The wheelspacers I have on my car are also dated october 1982, the same month as the production date of my car. Which leads me to believe that they came original from factory.

Given that my SC is a last of the line I have also other front bumpers and fog lights (of the 1983 carrera)...

This car passed its annual test for 30 years without a hickup and now this....

M.

[tvanbroekhoven]

Does your car have a normal 'gelijkvormigheidsattest' ? (conformity document)

Because all dimensions are in there, and that's what they use to check whether your car still complies with the original blueprint.

It these are factory parts, it should be in there and they have to let you pass!

[winders]

As best as I can recall, the 911SC did not come with spacers. Why would it? The track never changed during its production run. So, the MOT guys are correct.

Scott

[Vereeken]

I doubt the MOT guys are correct as they never measured the track. They where looking at an excuse to fail the car. Regardless of that , also the insurance company believes they are at fault. They have appointed an expert and a lawyer.

It is called envy on the side of the MOT testers. Something you encounter frequently the more you have somthing that can be enjoyed.

BTW the Wheelspacer legislation is from 2006. It is very hard to make a car from 82 comply with something invented 24 years later.
Besides the legislation is clear the track can be within a 2 % deviation. My track with the spacers falls within that deviation. But as they never measured it how could they know.

I have a "gelijkvormigheidsattest from 1982" and a certificate of authenticity. At that time they where not what they are today.
Besides it is pointless as they would not state "wheelspacers" as a word. My Z4 M coupé (new from factroy) comes with a wider track achieved by wheelspacers. The wider track is mentioned but not HOW they achived the wider track.

To the best of my knowledge I believe the spacers came with the optional 16 inch fuchs wheels at that time.

In essence if you would present them with a 930 Turbo today bog standard they woudl fail the car because it has wheelspacers (even if they are from factory).

So you see it is a catch 22 or whatever it is called. Mind you this is only one specific MOT station where a complete idiot is at the helm. Unfortunately once it has failed you are not allowed to go to another station.

Michel

[wayner]

Can you find a parts sketch that lists the spacers in some manual?

[tvanbroekhoven]

To which MOT station have you been exactly?

I have to go too, and do not want to get into the same trouble.

[Vereeken]

I am indeed looking for the parts diagram. The spacers have Porsche number coding on them so there must be a diagram somewhere.

This station is ofcourse Rotselaar near Leuven.

Do a search and you will see what I mean...Problem is I live 1km away so it is convenient.

5 years ago he failed me on another car because of a CAT issue....one small problem ...the car did not have a CAT from factory. But did have a lambda.
His words at the time " you have a lambda, so you must have a CAT. you have DECATED your car and that is illegal"....Anyway the importer put him straight on that occasion.

I am hoping that Porsche Belgium will com through but these days they are the size of a peanut with only very young people behind the desk.

[Bill Verburg]

SC never used a spacer

For 930s Porsche got TÜV approval

the spacers were part of the rear track increase and the trailing arms are the other part

Anderson has a great pic of an SC and 930 trailing arm side by side where you can see the additional projection of the 930

lastly the 930 trailing arm pickup points were moved outboard ~22mm from where the SCs are

930 spacers

75-77 spacers
21mm 930.341.611.00
54mm 930.331.911.04
78- spacers
21mm 930.341.611.00
28mm rear 930.331.611.04

[Vereeken]

Bill thank you, helpful.

I will recover the partnumbers printed on my wheelspacers.

Do you happen to have a (scanned) copy of that TUV approval?

Are you saying they had TUV approval for the wheelspacers or for the wheelspacers in combination with the 930?

Michel

[DaveE]

The online parts catalog, 911 for 1978-83 shows a spacer for the Turbo model. It's item 40 on pages 176-77, part number 930.331.611.04.

[billjam]

Does this help? Its from Porsche parts manual for 86 Turbo, but I am pretty sure it's the same for earlier models. Others may confirm.

[msterling]

Do you have an SC or a 930? SC's did not come with spacers. 930's did come with spacers. Spacers on an SC would mean it had been altered to increase the track or use alternate wheels. Maybe you could remove the spacers to pass inspection.

It should be clear that Porsche achieved the wider track with a combination of spacers AND other 930-specific parts. I don't think that is what you want to hear.