SC starting issue

[tvanbroekhoven]

Hi Guys

My shifter problem has been sorted (see rennshift installation problem topic) and everything is installed so I thought, let's give it a go!

Yeah...

It doesn't start! The engine goes round and there is a spark, but that's it. Also I can hear the fuel pump buzzing.

The fuel tank is almost empty (second to last mark). Could this be the issue ? Or does it need some more starting effort to get the fuel lines filled ?

I also replaced the fuel filter BTW.

[Porchcar guy]

How long has it sat with old gas ?

[Scott R]

Pull and injector, place it in a jar and lift the sensor plate. Does it spray gas?

[tvanbroekhoven]

It has been sitting with old gas for 6 months.

I'll check the injector thing tomorrow. (how do you remove those ?)

Is it possible this is caused by the air in the fuel lines ?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by tvanbroekhoven

It has been sitting with old gas for 6 months.

I'll check the injector thing tomorrow. (how do you remove those ?)

Is it possible this is caused by the air in the fuel lines ?

They are held into the injector with friction from the o-ring. They pop out with some pulling, or some leverage sometimes.

[tvanbroekhoven]

It has been sitting with old gas for the last 6 to 7 months.

I'll check the injector thing tomorrow (how do you pull them?)

Could the starting issue also be caused by air in the fuel lines ?

[Porchcar guy]

I would put some new gas in it (5 gal), perhaps add some Stabil or BK44

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Scott R

They are held into the injector with friction from the o-ring. They pop out with some pulling, or some leverage sometimes.

Yes - as Scott says they pull straight up and out of the intake runner. They are only held in mechanically (friction/pressure) by a rubber o-ring that is larger than the bore in the orange colored sleeve. The orange sleeve has an o-ring that seals it into the metal bore of the intake tube as well as crimps at the top of the metal bore.

CIS, without an air leak or blockage will fill your lines real quick.

Check a random injector as noted to ensure flow.

This is overkill for your issue but I would suggest popping out all of your injectors and running down to your local supermarket and buying six baby food jars and empty them. Eat them if you can stand it. :-) Put the injectors in them and turn your key to on (not start) and lift your air sensor to half fill the jars. That will give you an idea if your injectors are spraying equally.

I am not buying into seven month old gasoline turning to jelly. However, a splash of fresh gas and some additive as Porchcar Guy says would not hurt at all.

Second to the last mark is about 6 1/2 gallons. Gauge is divided into quarters. 21.5 gallon tank - each mark is 5 gallons with 1 1/2 in reserve.

Starting fluid into air intake may help bring it to life. May at least tell you you have spark and air.

[crustychief]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Yes - as Scott says they pull straight up and out of the intake runner. They are only held in mechanically (friction/pressure) by a rubber o-ring that is larger than the bore in the orange colored sleeve. The orange sleeve has an o-ring that seals it into the metal bore of the intake tube as well as crimps at the top of the metal bore.

CIS, without an air leak or blockage will fill your lines real quick.

Check a random injector as noted to ensure flow.

This is overkill for your issue but I would suggest popping out all of your injectors and running down to your local supermarket and buying six baby food jars and empty them. Eat them if you can stand it. :-) Put the injectors in them and turn your key to on (not start) and lift your air sensor to half fill the jars. That will give you an idea if your injectors are spraying equally.

I am not buying into seven month old gasoline turning to jelly. However, a splash of fresh gas and some additive as Porchcar Guy says would not hurt at all.

Second to the last mark is about 6 1/2 gallons. Gauge is divided into quarters. 21.5 gallon tank - each mark is 5 gallons with 1 1/2 in reserve.

Starting fluid into air intake may help bring it to life. May at least tell you you have spark and air.

Be very careful with the starting spray, do not depress the throttle pedal! it could blow your airbox!

[Joe Bob]

Ether on CIS should be sprayed, then started....do not spray during a crank cycle.

Ethanol gas doesn't stay stable long. Turns to junk pretty damn quick.

If the engine coughs with ether and doesn't run with new gas, suspect fuel pressure. A gauge will be the best bet to diagnose this.

Also consider the fuel filter as a source of restriction.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Ethanol gas doesn't stay stable long. Turns to junk pretty damn quick.

Even if it does not "turn to jelly" as I said, it definitely absorbs moisture.

Belgium does import (actually I think the term was consumption) ethanol as an oxygenate. Numbers are not that huge - couple thousand barrels/day. Not sure if they use it everywhere there.

Here is a blurb from the link below it

How Do You Identify Bad Gas?

One way is to eyeball it. Oxidized fuel often turns darker over time and may even smell sour. You can check stored gasoline by pouring some into a clear glass container and comparing it side-by-side with known fresh gasoline. If your old sample looks noticeably darker than the fresh gas, you have strong evidence the gas has gone bad.

Does Gas Go Bad?

[Joe Bob]

I missed the Belgium location.

Smell.....OLD bad gas smells like ass or turpentine but it don't smell like gas. New bad gas....dunno. Prolly color like you said.

Gas with water....couple of ways, completely drain tank and look for separation. Filter....pull the filter and pour out what's in there.....again look for separation.

Best to use a clear container.

[kodioneill]

If you replaced the fuel filter you now have air in your fuel lines you have to bleed them off. Please disregard if this was in a previous post I did not read the entire thread.

[tvanbroekhoven]

We DO have good gas over here! It better be for what we're paying here! (7€/gallon). Actually, we make a lot of your gas over here in the port of Antwerp.

I fixed the problem by pulling the injector and starting the car. It seemed like there must have been air in de fuel lines that got expelled as soon as I removed the injector!

Thanks to all of you! You guys are most helpfull!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by tvanbroekhoven

Actually, we make a lot of your gas over here in the port of Antwerp.

It's a big game. Fear mongers say we (US) import too much fuel, but our biggest export is fuel. Not close to the amount imported though.

America’s top export in 2011 was . . . fuel? - The Washington Post

Good you got it fixed. You probably had air in the lines like you thought and it was a coincidence with pulling the injector.

Off topic - Have told this story before but I was turned on to Belgian fries by a co-worker there. I looked it up on the internet and found different ways they were made. I said to him "Man, they used to cook Belgian fries in horse fat" He responded with "What do you mean, used to?"

Wonder if it is possible to get horse fat here?

[tvanbroekhoven]

The horse fat thing is indeed true, and BTW we DID invent fries! We're just to modest to brag about it .

This guy 'Alain Passard' from restaurant 'l'Arpège' in Paris still bakes his fries in horse fat. So if you're ever in Paris (and are on a big restaurant budget)...

Nowadays we use either cow fat or vegetable oil, prolly the same as you do in the US.

[Bob Kontak]

Used cow fat once. It was divine. A pain to melt it all down and get the bone and meat out but the taste is brutally superior to vegetable oil.

[tvanbroekhoven]

You ... extracted the fat yourself ? Now that's some culinary craftsmanship right there! . Boiling your own cow...

We buy the stuff at the local supermarket, it's called 'ossewit' which translates to oxen'white'.