Drop-in Programmable Replacement ECU for Motronic DME!

[911TT33]

Came across this exciting product for those of you who are considering a replacement ECU for the Motronic DME. This drops in place and connects into the OEM loom. Installs in 1hr and comes with a good base 3.2 map to get you going until you get to a dyno to fine tune.

A great solution for those considering an aftermarket forced induction setup and needs the tunability of fuel/ignition maps

Porsche 911 Tuning : Canems EMS, Online Store

Can also convert to a MAP / TPS load sensing setup to eliminate the crappy restrictive barn door AFM forever! More torque, more power, crisper throttle response, and completely tunable

No affiliation! Just thought I'd share

[hcoles]

subscribed, very interesting set of products

[onboost]

Yes, this should be an interesting thread.

I've often wondered why with all the car-guy/hacker types here in the US that this alternative had not been explored.

Considering that the stock 3.2 and/or 3.6 harness pretty much provides everything needed from a sensor, data point, perspective. That is to say if I'm understanding correctly that these are to be plug & play programmable ECU replacements.

[jpnovak]

There is also a Megasquirt version.

DIT Autotune has a Plug and play variant for the Motronic system. I know they have a 964 pinout. I am not sure about the earlier version for the 3.2.

[hcoles]

I'd like to see comments from Steve Wong. I'll bet he would be one to check it out and get the tuning/etc tested and correct. I like the idea of getting rid of the distributor.

[911TT33]

I made contact with the vendor and they advise:

Quote:

The ECUs are supplied with extremely good base maps that should be virtually perfect for an unmodified engine. We've invested in a lot of dyno time and road hours with all variations of our kits.

They will suit any 3.2 Carrera.

Sounds like a very good aftermarket plug'n'play solution to me. Drops in place within an hour and hardly needs any dyno tuning to get going!? It's a no brainer to me! Since it's fully programmable, everytime you make changes to the engine's VE, just get it to a competent dyno tuner.

The fact that it comes with a pretty spot on base map for a NA motor is very attractive! No more barn door AFM!

[Lorenfb]

"No more barn door AFM!"

So? Do a little searching and you'll find that an MAF versus AFM results in ZERO!
Except wasted time and money.

[911TT33]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"No more barn door AFM!"

So? Do a little searching and you'll find that an MAF versus AFM results in ZERO!
Except wasted time and money.

Yes, but AFM vs speed density MAP? Significant restriction in the intake vs none?

[Lorenfb]

"Significant restriction in the intake vs none?"

Don't think so! All the data over many years indicate NO benefit.
That's why there's no market for the conversion. Many have wasted
their money.

[911TT33]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"Significant restriction in the intake vs none?"

Don't think so! All the data over many years indicate NO benefit.
That's why there's no market for the conversion. Many have wasted
their money.

Are you saying the AFM poses no restriction, and moving to a MAP based system yields no benefits? Btw, my original post mentioned it'd be a good solution for forced induction conversions.

When did Porsche stop using the barn door AFM? Actually, which car manufacturer still uses a barn door AFM these days?

Do any aftermarket engine management system vendors use a barn door AFM?

When I went from Bosch AFM to a MAP based system on my blown 3.2, the difference in throttle response was night and day.

[Lorenfb]

"When I went from Bosch AFM to a MAP based system on my blown 3.2, the difference in throttle response was night and day."

Because the timing was changed (pushed) in the chip for the MAF sensor too!!!
That made the real difference. The change to a MAF for EOMs was to enhance
emissions control and better fuel metering and NOT performance.

[Raceboy]

I advertized a PnP drop-in replacement VEMS ECU for 964 some time ago.
For those who aren't familiar, it's a VEMS v3.5 engine management that is directly swappable with stock ECU. Works with stock ignition system or you can go direct ignition when routing additional harness. Using onboard WBo2 also requires additional harness.
With this ECU, you can toss the barn-door AFM out and have straight pipe instead.
For cars without Tiptronic, variable TPS sensor should be installed for better driveability (stock is simple idle/WOT switch). Vacuum hose is also needed for MAP sensor.

Regarding the MAF vs barn door. In stock 3.2 and 964, barn door is maxed out (=fully open) already approximately at 3500 rpm and ECU relies on the WOT map only which is NOT optimal as conditions change often.

Difference in just swapping the ECUs is like this:


Dark blue and dark green graphs are with stock ECU (it produced 156 rwkW).
There are number of runs, I left the violet one to ECU as I made the ignition a little bit safer side. This car uses stock catalytic converters.
Results: car made 172 rwKW and 296 rwNm.

ECU looks like this:


This is NEW unit, price is 880EUR.

[Lorenfb]

"Regarding the MAF vs barn door. In stock 3.2 and 964, barn door is maxed out (=fully open) already approximately at 3500 rpm and ECU relies on the WOT map only which is NOT optimal as conditions change often."

Insignificant!!!!!!!!!

[Deadeye]

Loren, reading your responses in this thread I'm not sure if you are down on the after market ecu set up or just the reference to removing the barn door. Flame suit is on, but I am thinking about going to a fully electronic and tunable engine management system and gathering data points for that purpose.

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

Insignificant!!!!!!!!!

Gee, wake up, man! It's almost 2012 and the inaccuracy of the "barn door" with moving parts is proved many times, plus its unreliability.

It has been a fact for something like 10 years that you can always get more power and driveability with a decent standalone programmable ecu than 30year old technology that lacks both hardware power, additional functions (nitrous-control, shift-lights, various safety warnings/limiters, datalogging etc) and live tuning capability.

I have installed quite a few ecus in my life onto various cars and can't even imagine why would anyone want to keep original ecu when tunability and results matter and cost of the standalones have gone so low. Unless car is supposed to be 100% original of course.

[Rodsrsr]

FWIW, When I did my supercharger to turbo conversion, I upgraded to a MAF with split second controller. I have no way of telling if I gained performance from the MAF, since everything was done at the same time, but I will say that the car is noticeably smoother across the entire RPM range.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by 911TT33

Came across this exciting product for those of you who are considering a replacement ECU for the Motronic DME. This drops in place and connects into the OEM loom. Installs in 1hr and comes with a good base 3.2 map to get you going until you get to a dyno to fine tune.

A great solution for those considering an aftermarket forced induction setup and needs the tunability of fuel/ignition maps

Porsche 911 Tuning : Canems EMS, Online Store

Can also convert to a MAP / TPS load sensing setup to eliminate the crappy restrictive barn door AFM forever! More torque, more power, crisper throttle response, and completely tunable

No affiliation! Just thought I'd share

Reading the manual, looks like almost everything is programmable. Also looks like there is a real time display of values possible while driving which would be nice. I see some dashboard type images but not confirmed that these are user configurable and display real-time data while driving or on a dyno. Definitely a very cool product IMHO. If nothing else we might come up with a CA smog passing map that can be shared.

[Lorenfb]

"the inaccuracy of the "barn door" with moving parts is proved many times, plus its unreliability."

Really? Most/all AFMs last longer than most 911 engines. The problem is that most mis-diagnose
running problems as related to a bad AFM. Ask 993 & 996/997 owners how often a MAF causes
a problem and must be replaced.

"but I am thinking about going to a fully electronic and tunable engine management system and gathering data points for that purpose."

That's find. But nothing is really gained by just using another engine management
system. The engine must be modified, e.g. exhaust, turbo, CR, etc. to gain any
significant improvement.

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"but I am thinking about going to a fully electronic and tunable engine management system and gathering data points for that purpose."

That's find. But nothing is really gained by just using another engine management
system. The engine must be modified, e.g. exhaust, turbo, CR, etc. to gain any
significant improvement.

I just proved your statement plain wrong. Read the dyno sheet above. Both measurements were done on the same day and compared right after I finished tuning the standalone. Engine was BONE STOCK down to the original catalyzers that the car had in the factory.
The different torque lines on the standalone are testing the resonance flap opening rpm.

I think 156 rwkW vs 172 rwkW is nothing, right?

I don't know where are you taking your statement regarding AFM lifetime, but while they "work", it is more than often where it gives out inconsistent voltages and causes the ecu to not work properly.

[tkosier]

Didn't see any Porsche stuff on the DIT Autotune site, only Miata PNP systems.
Tom