Considering Buying a 1978 911 SC Targa

[Igla]

I'm new to this site and I have just started my hunt for my 911. The car I’m considering buying is the first Porsche I have driven. I've read in this post that you should not buy the first one you test drive, but this one looks like it would be a good buy for the right price as it was very well taken care of mechanically and I don’t want to miss out on a good buy. I'm trying to figure out what's fair value. Here are the particulars:

98K miles
All original except for radio and a mechanism in the trunk used to trickle charge the battery.
The exterior is pretty good, except for a ding, 6' light scratch along the side and a missing light cap on the fog light.
Tires will have to be replaced very soon.
The following work was done at 92K miles in 2009: top end of engine was rebuilt, new clutch and oil pan.
During the life of the car, it was broken down to thoroughly repaint it.
There is no rust except a very slight part on the door where the window goes down into the door cavity and meets the body.
He is the fourth owner where his dad bought it from a doctor and it has been down to his brother and now he has it. I believe he has owned for at least four years, but needs to sell it for personal reasons.
All receipts are accounted for along with the owner‘s manual.
Targa top has been reconditioned along with a new seal.
The interior looks very good and everything works except the front seats have some small tears behind them; one has been stitched up and another has not been attending to. Left driver side air vent is missing, but he said that’s somewhere in the car as it pop out when he slammed the door. Also, the turn signals aren’t blinking, but he said that can be fixed with a new fuse.
The AC unit has been completely removed as it was not working. His thought is since it’s a targa, there no need for the AC, plus you save a 100 lbs.
He told me the car has been lowered a little bit, but not by his doing.
Brakes were replaced last month.
I test drove the car for over 30 minutes on winding country roads. The car handles very nicely and pulls strong in all gears. The only thing is that it felt like it was a little hard shifting into second, but that may be because the way the tranny is for these cars.
It’s not used as daily driver.
I spoke to the mechanic who has been servicing the car up to a year ago. He’s the one that rebuilt the engine. The mechanic said the seller has kept up the car well and has done all the required work to keep it mechanically sound. The seller told me he’s now taking it to another Porsche shop.

I asked the seller if anyone else is interested and he told me an older gentleman test drove it twice and got an PPI done. The seller thinks the buyer is taking his good all time deciding whether or not to pull the trigger. This supposedly occurred last week.

I know everyone says to get a PPI done, but given that I have spoken to the mechanic, the buyer’s extensive receipt records, seeing and test driving the car, and with the other buyer performing a PPI, I was thinking of by passing the inspection.

He listed it at $16,500 and so far I’ve gotten him down to $15,750 and he’s firm. My thoughts are that for a 1978 911 SC in great overall condition tops out at maybe $16,000. With that said, discounting the things that I need to do to bring the car up to a great overall condition, I estimate fair value to be around $13,400. But given all the work the seller has done to the car, I might pay his price. I want to make sure I’m not over paying. Also, do you see this car going up in value in the years to come?

What are your thoughts?

[mreid]

While you're writing on here, you could be driving several other vehicles to get yourself some expeerience. Use the one you like as your benchmark and drive some that are at various price points, but similar years. I looked for a year, drove a dozen different cars, and stopped myself twice before making my recent decision. I knew I wanted an 80's air cooled, but it stopped there. I looked at plain 911's (if you can even say that about this beautiful beast), SC, and 930's. At one point I said I would only go with an '89 930, then backed off and considered anything after '83, then thought, no a 930 slant nose. Finally, I settled on an '84 through '89 930 as my target, but then looked at an '81 wide body. Let's see, I then looked at a couple of tuners, before spotting my now owned and loved '86 930 with a Ruf package. It was love at first site!

Even if this is the right car, prove it to yourself by driving others.

[Igla]

Any suggestion as to what fair value would be?

[timmy2]

If the car has everything you want and you like it, give him a refundable deposit and have a proper PPI done.

For value, Here's what I posted in a recent thread:
kelly blue book value for 1985 Porsche 911

Just checked NADA classic for my '78 SC. zip 97304 for retail sales.
The Coupe is low $16,200 Average $19,700 High $27,200
The Targa is low $16,900 Average $ 20,600 High $28,700

I can't imagine the value of these cars dropping and all indications are they will increase in value.

So using the common saying that they are all $20,000.00 cars....Subtract the value of the parts for any needed repairs and go from there.

Good luck

I'd go for it at the right price, but I'm somewhat biased

Finally, back in the game!

[BRLuecke]

Are you the type to work on it yourself? This generation of cars can be a little problematic due to the CIS fuel injection. Also, the second gear shift will only get worse, maybe slowly, but it doesn't typically get better. Drivers do get better at dealing with it. The big ticket item is often a engine rebuilt, and is often needed because of broken cylinder studs. Check the top end rebuild paper work to make sure they have been replaced. Then, take a breath, hold your nose, pay your money, and go for it. And, for the record all Targa tops leak......

[Hnichols]

Others on this site know far more than I, but from the info. here, it sounds like a fair deal: rebuilt motor, complete records, only 92K miles for under 16K. Especially if you like targas.

I might investigate the rust a bit more, just to make sure there isn't more lurking there. (I'm bit paranoid about rust, based on past experience with old BMW's.)

If you really like the car, and you're concerned that you have to move quickly, I'd say go for it. Good luck!

[frankc]

Originally Posted by Igla

The following work was done at 92K miles in 2009: top end of engine was rebuilt, new clutch and oil pan.

I'd be interested to know what is meant by a new "oil pan". Remember these are dry sump motors. Sump cover perhaps?

[Igla]

The mechanic told me he replaced something, I don't remember what, but he said I didn't have to worry about any oil leakage, so that's why I said oil pan. Again, I'm new to this whole process, so please enlighten me.

[sundevil64]

get the ppi. I bought a car and didn't do a ppi and had multiple issue later that cost more than the cost of the car. Granted, I got a good price on the car, but the point is if you want to drive the car now, know what you are walking into. Now that I have been around the cars a little I may have noticed some of the red flags, but at the time it was my 1st Porsche also.

[yelcab1]

If I were to buy that car, $14K is very top. Those little things cost more than you think. My SC was bought (higher miles) in 8/10 condition for $8500, and sold five years later in 9/10 condition for $11K. $16K is for somebody who must have that car.

[Igla]

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like the seller needs to come down a lot even before I think about getting the PPI.

[frankc]

Originally Posted by Igla

The mechanic told me he replaced something, I don't remember what, but he said I didn't have to worry about any oil leakage, so that's why I said oil pan. Again, I'm new to this whole process, so please enlighten me.

[yikes, my post count is 666 - I need to post something quick ]

Glad to help if I can. In case it was not obvious, the reason I mentioned the dry sump system is that these motors do not have an oil pan (but they do have a rather large oil tank).

It could have been the sump plate/cover. People sometimes over-torque the fasteners holding the plate to the bottom of the case. Since the plate is steel, it will bend at the stud holes, and then does not seal well against the case resulting in an oil leak (the plate can usually be bent back into shape). Another possibility is that the rear of the car was lifted by placing the jack under the sump plate, thus causing it to bend. Or it could have been the oil return tubes. I guess the good news is that whatever it was, it is now fixed .

[Igla]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

If I were to buy that car, $14K is very top. Those little things cost more than you think. My SC was bought (higher miles) in 8/10 condition for $8500, and sold five years later in 9/10 condition for $11K. $16K is for somebody who must have that car.

So even with the rebuilt engine, you're top offer is still $14K?

[Bob Kontak]

The market is improving.

Go to cars.com and search on 911s. Mo max on price or miles from your house. Then sort the list by year. I just about flipped when I saw the asking prices for SC's.

[Igla]

I told the seller given the A/C was removed, tears behind the front seats and the need for new tires, my offer is $13,500. I was hoping he would counter, but he just said "Sorry, I'll pass".

[mreid]

"Alright, thanks for playing, but give me a call if you change your mind."

Now, you can go do research and drive a handfull to see what you really like and want.

[Igla]

So I guess I need to move on and see what I really want. Given the reviews, I would like to test drive the '87-'89 911s.