My engine seems loud

[Christien]

Ever since I transplanted the 3.0L in, my engine seems awfully loud. I've adjusted the valves twice, and redid the intake valves a third time, though I think I'm still hearing a bit of valve tick. But outside of that, it still sounds a bit like a big truck or something.

Have a listen - this is idle, 2000rpm, 3000rpm, 4000, then back to idle:
engine - YouTube

It's a 1982 US 3.0L with Weber carbs and original 1972 exhaust, though with a Bursch sport muffler that's maybe 4 or 5 years old (bought new). The distributor is from the SC, but recurved for mechanical advance and retard. Timing has been set, valves adjusted as I said, and carbs tuned last weekend.

[Tidybuoy]

I'll wait to see what the pelican experts have to say but to me, it sounds loud and rough (like on 5 cyl).

[emac]

2K for idle is very high hear the valves not trying to be a a$$ but to me sounds low on oil

[Brando]

Are you sure you didn't install a 3.0L Type IV?
I jest...

Sure doesn't sound right. Check oil as noted above. Also pull the plugs and check the color to see if you have one or two not firing.

Are your plug wires in correct order? Have you checked the mixture after switching to carbs? Made sure they are all synchronized & balanced?

[Christien]

Idle is at 1000. I revved it to 2000, then 3 then 4 so you can hear the different sounds it's making.

I never thought about oil. What's the capacity for a 3.0L? What about when you factor in the 1972-only oil tank? Is the dipstick still going to be accurate?

[Christien]

Plug wires are correct, double checked when I redid the intake valves last weekend. Carbs are synhced and balanced, and mixture set as per backing out the screw until the idle dips. I don't have an exhaust gas meter, so I can't check the mixture with any more detail than the screws.

[jeffs9146]

Here is what mine sounded like before I adjusted the valves and on the first start up after the install!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmVYNV01K-U&feature=youtu.be

[emac]

Oil should be "around" 13 qts I have a 81not sure on tank and dip stick but I'm sure they are close. Check with warm engine level ground and running. Should be between max and low mark on stick. Might be wrong but it really sounds low on oil.
My 2c

[emac]

PS idle still a little high eight to eight fifty

[Christien]

I'm just not sure I can go with the dipstick, with the mismatched oil tank, plumbing and engine. I did check it when I changed the oil a few weeks ago, and the oil level was fine on the dipstick. 13 qts is MUCH higher than the standard 1972 capacity, which is 9-10.

[emac]

Ok I just listened to both clips again Jeff's sounds like it should yours not right. #1 check oil first things first. If goo go from there. I wouldn't push engine until you find issue
Ernie

[Christien]

Will do tomorrow morning - thanks.

[Chuck.H]

Since you're using the '72 oil tank, is it possible the tank is not configured the same as the SC engine's tank, and therefore the oil pump is not correctly scavanging and pressuring correctly? I assume you have the 3.0 oil pressure sensor, do you see good oil pressure that increases with RPM?

It might help to plumb in a simple mechanical oil pressure gauge while you look at this...

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 339k miles

[Christien]

Just checked the oil, and it's reading just above the high line on the dipstick. At idle, the oil level gauge is reading about 3/4. So at least by those measures the oil level is good.

But is the dipstick/gauge reliable with the engine and oil system mismatched? (I know the gauge isn't reliable at the best of times, though it always has been in the ballpark.) I don't have any additional oil cooling, just tank and hoses to/from the engine. When I last did an oil change a few weeks ago, I put about 7-8 quarts in, warmed it up, checked the level then added as necessary, which is how I've always done it, with both the 2.4L and the 3.0L.

I'm using the pressure sensor that came with the 3.0L connected to my original 1972 dash gauge. I'm seeing what I believe is normal oil pressure on the gauge - low at idle, increasing with rpms to about 5-6 at 4000-4500 rpm, so just a bit more than 1 bar per 1000 rpms.

FWIW, I've noticed significantly lower temperatures with the 3.0L. I used to see about 85-90 for regular driving, 100 on hot summer days, and as high as 120 on a hot day at the track. I haven't been to the track since I put the 3.0L in, but even on a hot summer day driving hard I haven't broken 85. I've always just assumed that the temp sender is sending a differently-calibrated signal to the dash gauge, and assumed the temperature was actually higher than that. I don't know if that sheds any extra light on this situation.

I don't really want to overfill it then drive it around, but what's the consensus? Add another litre and see if it quiets down? 2 litres? 3?

[Christien]

Ok, so my memory's not so good . Warmed it up in the garage to check the oil level, then headed out. At 3800 rpm I was seeing 3 on the pressure gauge. At 5000 it was at 4. Those #s seem low to me, but again, they might be uncalibrated.

Temp was 60, never got above that in 15 minutes on the highway, after having already warmed up in the garage. Outside temp today is 22 (72F).

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I'll wait to see what the pelican experts have to say but to me, it sounds loud and rough (like on 5 cyl).

I am with Tidybouy - the engine sounds to have a miss.

Exterior noise can be increased with the older exhaust and carbs.

Check this thread out on thick vs thin flange exhaust.

Exhaust leaks from ALL flanges....

[Quicksilver]

You say that the engine is a transplant.

What kind intake and exhaust was on it before?

If you went from CIS with a stock exhaust to webers with an early style dual header then it is going to be louder. Just webers can make a noise difference. Intake noise can be very loud on a car and part of the function of an air cleaner is to quiet the intake noise.

[kent olsen]

I have a 72 with an 81 3.0L that I built my self also. As far as the oil quantity is concerned it's the same no matter what engine is in the car. I have an oil cooler in the front fender but all that does is add oil quantity and you can't measure it anyway. The quantity in the tank reads the tank and engine volume. There is a temp sensitive valve in the line to the front cooler that doesn't open until around 190 deg F. Your oil on the stick should be around mid point between the two marks.

First the webers are noisier, I have those also. Your audio does sound like something clicking, hard to tell. Go find a childs stethoscope or even a length of garden hose and listen across the valve covers for anything ticking. That should eliminate the valve adjustment issue. However when I bought my 3.0L block it had three broken head studs so that could be an issue also if you didn't have the engine apart. Good Luck

[Christien]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I'll wait to see what the pelican experts have to say but to me, it sounds loud and rough (like on 5 cyl).

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I am with Tidybouy - the engine sounds to have a miss.

How do I check this?

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Exterior noise can be increased with the older exhaust and carbs.

Check this thread out on thick vs thin flange exhaust.

Exhaust leaks from ALL flanges....

Yep, I had that problem getting the exhaust on. I couldn't figure it out and ended up having it towed to a shop, where he did just what was said in that thread, add washers, so it's on there tight. Though I can check and see if it's developed a leak at all. The muffler was never separated from the rest of the exhaust, so shouldn't have developed any leaks that weren't there before. The Bursch exhaust is indeed louder than the stock banana muffler, but I've had it for years, so I'm used to that additional noise.

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

You say that the engine is a transplant.

What kind intake and exhaust was on it before?

If you went from CIS with a stock exhaust to webers with an early style dual header then it is going to be louder. Just webers can make a noise difference. Intake noise can be very loud on a car and part of the function of an air cleaner is to quiet the intake noise.

Webers and original exhaust were on the 2.4, and I actually had a 1967 2.0L in there for a year or 2 between the 2.4 and the 3.0, again with the Webers and same exhaust. The 2.4 and 2.0 sounded more or less exactly the same. I did change the original airbox out for K&N filters and hats, but that was only back in July, and the additional engine noise was there before that.

Originally Posted by kent olsen

I have a 72 with an 81 3.0L that I built my self also. As far as the oil quantity is concerned it's the same no matter what engine is in the car. I have an oil cooler in the front fender but all that does is add oil quantity and you can't measure it anyway. The quantity in the tank reads the tank and engine volume. There is a temp sensitive valve in the line to the front cooler that doesn't open until around 190 deg F. Your oil on the stick should be around mid point between the two marks.

First the webers are noisier, I have those also. Your audio does sound like something clicking, hard to tell. Go find a childs stethoscope or even a length of garden hose and listen across the valve covers for anything ticking. That should eliminate the valve adjustment issue. However when I bought my 3.0L block it had three broken head studs so that could be an issue also if you didn't have the engine apart. Good Luck

Thanks for confirming about the oil levels. Glad I didn't just toss an extra few litres in there!

Broken head studs are a new thing to me, as it wasn't much of an issue with the 2.4s. I did have John Walker do a PPI on the engine before I bought it (seller was in Seattle) and I specifically asked him to check for broken head studs, and it was fine. Broken studs should be apparent when you remove the lower valve covers, right? i.e. pieces of stud loose or falling out. As far as I can tell inside the valve covers, everything looks fine.

[kent olsen]

If John Walker did the PPI he probably did check the head studs, but they can be broken with nothing visual. All it takes is to put a socket on them with a light twist and if broken they will turn.