Tell me if I have a problem... (Clutch pedal)

Leland Pate · 06-12-2002, 06:18 AM

Well, yesterday I got my box from Pelican with my clutch pedal return spring. Last week I rebuilt my pedal cluster and replaced all bushings with bronze. I noticed that my clutch pedal return spring was missing so I ordered one from our host.

Last night me and a roommate put it in....WOW ...that thing was hard. I referenced my manuals to make sure I was installing it correctly and all but here's the problem.

The clutch pedal doesn't come back out all the way now...

This is odd because I thought this was a clutch pedal "RETURN" spring. It gets close but definately doesn't completely rest on the rubber stop (on the cluster).

I can use my toe and gently pull on it and it will flop all the way out, but it won't do it on it's own.

So, what did I do wrong? Am I preloading the clutch like this?
Does this spring just need to break in or something?

Help!

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Can you post a pic.
It sounds as if the spring is too long or the clutch pedal is somehow binding and cannot return to its proper resting position. Is there still tension on the spring when the pedal is in its current position? If so it is likely binding. If not, then maybe the spring is too long or improperly installed.

Chuck Moreland · 06-12-2002, 08:44 AM

That spring pulls the pedal in both directions. Once you start pushing the pedal, the spring helps your leg. When you release fully, the spring helps hold the pedal all the way out. The horseshoe at the tranny works this way as well.

It is a cantilever type action.

Sounds to me like you don't have the cable adjusted properly. The cable adjustment makes a huge difference in pedal feel. Missadjustment can make the pedal very heavy.

Also make sure you don't have the spring upside down. If the clutch arm is hitting the spring, it's upside down.

Leland Pate · 06-12-2002, 09:11 AM

I put the return spring on in the same direction as shown in my Bentley manual.

The coiled end is at the front of the car with the hook on the pedal facing down.

Another gent PM'ed me this morning also suggesting that I re-adjust the clutch cable to compensate for the spring. I guess it didn't occur to me that the spring would affect the clutch cable adjustment because I thought all this sucker did was help the pedal return to the stop.
And like i said, all I have to do is give it a nudge with my toe and it will come all the way out.

I have noticed that the clutch is easier to engage and disengage.

I'll try readjusting the cable tonight and see if that makes a difference.

Superman · 06-12-2002, 09:33 AM

Adjusting the cable at the tranny end is exactly what you need in order to fix this condition. Put a piece of lumber behind the clutch pedal so it is held all the way out. Get under the car and remove the cable from the fitting there. Use a pry bar to pry the horseshoe spring back in the opposite direction from the one in which it travels when you depress the clutch pedal. The horseshoe spring will snap in that direction, toward (perhaps against) the exhaust. THEN adjust the lock bolt to achieve the 1.2mm gap, pu the cable back onto the fitting and tighten until the gap closes to 1mm.

If you do this properly the horseshoe spring will be holding the cable taut, and holding the pedal out. No further need to use your toe.

adamnitti · adamnitti's Garage

hey, leland-

i had the same prob with my clutch being 'sticky' on the way out until i properly adjusted the clutch cable. it really does make a big difference.

FRED/LI · 06-12-2002, 11:10 AM

If I remember right, the spring coiled around the pedal cluster shaft is there to return the pedal. Could that be weak or sprung the wrong way?
That small amount of force should bring your pedal up to the top.

Leland Pate · 06-12-2002, 12:54 PM

Fred, I believe that is the spring for the brake pedal return...

As soon as I get home i'll readjust the clutch.

sayah · 06-12-2002, 01:21 PM

I have the same concern. My clutch is working OK and I recently replaced the bronze busing in the cluster a short while ago and now the whole bushing has been eaten away and the clip is almost through the pedal itself. What could be wrong? The cable seems OK, car is a 75 w/o any helper spring on the trans . Does this normally have some kind of holder on the transmission to keep the bowden tube in place? Mine has no such clip, the tube is free once it comes out of the tunnel. Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated.

rstoll · 06-12-2002, 02:38 PM

I had the same problem. Replaced cable, problem solved. My cable "looked" ok, until I pulled it out of the tube. Frayed.

cary · 06-12-2002, 08:26 PM

Did you get it fixed with the adjustment ?

If not, just touch the Omega spring with your screwdriver. See if that makes the pedal return to the top. Could be that pin and bushing are getting tired. That's what was causing mine to hang like that.

Just about done with the car .............paint next week.

BoogieOnSkis · BoogieOnSkis's Garage

I had the same problem with my clutch. I adjusted the cable at the tranny several times. The clutch would feel good for a couple of days then would change again. I finally ordered another cable. When I pulled out the old cable, this is what I found:

By the way, there is an easy way to install the pedal cluster clutch spring. You need to remove all four nuts that hold down the cluster, detach the master cylinder linkage, then remove the allen head bolt from the brace that attaches to the cluster. Lift the cluster about a half inch off the floor then pull the clutch pedal towards you; the spring pin on the clutch pedal rotates to the floor. Now, just slip on the spring. When you push the clutch pedal back, it will pop into position. Now bolt it all back down. Done!

BoogieOnSkis · BoogieOnSkis's Garage

Let's try this again ...

If the "Attach file" doesn't work, here's the link:

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v1/9/60/34/40596034HgVser_th.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/user/boogieonskis

Sorry guys! Can someone please send me a private email to tell me how it's done?

Thanks!

magilla · 06-13-2002, 03:16 AM

Not to beat a dead horse, but....

When I had my clutch replaced, it was doing the same thing. When I releasedthe clutch, the pedal would only come back 85%. I could shove my foot under it and pop it back, or it would pop on it's own under hard acceleration. I eventually got someone to help me adjust my clutch cable, and now it works like a charm!!!

Simple and cheap fix (if you have the skills).

Leland Pate · 06-13-2002, 05:35 AM

Well I *think* I have this one solved.

I spent about 4 hours last night adjusting and re adjusting and re-re adjusting the cable.

Just to clear some things up...

The clutch cable has less than 20K on it since it was replaced in '00.

The pedal cluster bushings were just replaced last week.

The trunion pin was replaced last night.

And the clutch pedal retun spring was just installed the other night.

After the first adjustment last night, it made no difference... it still required a light tap from under to pop the pedal all the way out.
Then I tried it again.... same...
Then i did it a third time after adjusting the cable at the trunion pin side... now it was too short... so I pulled the pin and loosened it... then tried it again.
After the fourth time I gave up and went in the house for some dinner.

Came back out at about 8 and started putting it back together.

Just before I put the carpeting in, I sprayed some WD-40 type stuff all around the cluster...

Shaboom... that seemed to do the trick. At first, there was a bit of a slight delay and then it would pop out on it's own... then by this morning, it seems to be acting just fine.

I'll keep an eye on it for the next several weeks and see how it acts.

One thing I did notice was that after I adjusted the cable and pushed in the clutch (when it wouldn't pop out all the way)
When I'd climb back under the car, I found that the 1.0mm gap between the adjustment screw and clutch release arm was gone... I could push on the helper spring to get the gap back and at the same time heard a very muttled "thump" coming from in the car as the pedal popped back out on it's own from me putting a slight pressure on the cable.

Hell if I know.

Jdub · 06-13-2002, 07:08 AM

The brass bushings you used to rebush your pedal rack may simply need some time to conform to the state of the rack, so maybe time will help? The WD-40 gave you a bit of freedom but that can't last as this liquid is not a lube but rather a very effective displacer of water and grunge (as you know!).

Also, if you did not do this, do clean the horseshoe spring with a stiff bristle brush and lots of WD-40 to remove the crap between the spring leaves, then smear a bit of grease in there. Sure, the grease *will* attract grit, but typically I smear enough in there that the dirt cannot get in between the leaves: that is the area that causes binding. I clean this spring about five times a year and it DOES make a difference.

I cannot comment on losing the 1mm clearance - that seems very strange and would be of some concern to me as I believe this is is a symptom of an internal problem (fork?).

Superman · 06-13-2002, 07:47 AM

It doesn't seem strange to me at all. I feel I know what the problem is. The pedal spring tries to push the pedal to the floor. The thing that makes the pedal come all the way up when released is the HORSESHOE SPRING. When your cable is properly adjusted, the horseshoe spring will be pulling hard enough on the cable to keep the pedal in the fully upright position. I'm not going to restate the procedure, because I have given it above. Okay I'll say it again. Take the cable OFF the fitting under the car. pry the horseshoe spring back until it BANGS against the exhaust. Adjust the lock bolt to 1.2 mm. Attach the cable and tighten until there is a 1mm gap. Your pedal will be fully upright.