'77 Targa with '76 930 engine...good idea for a first Porsche?

[Mr Project]

I've been shopping for a 911 to use as a decent-weather daily driver (only 4-5k a year for me). I've been looking at SC's but an odd car popped up in my town, and it's a little rare for any 911s to pop up around here.

It's a '77 Targa that has a '76 930 engine installed. The engine appears 100% stock from what I can see. Horizontal wastegate and all. The car was built by a local professional who knew his way around Porsche's, probably 10 years ago. The owner paid for the engine swap with a bad check so the mechanic kept the car and had a storage lien against it when he died recently. His son is clearing out the shop and estate and is looking to sell the car.

It hasn't plates on it for 10 years, so I couldn't drive it more than just around the block, but it ran shockingly well. It even shifted VERY well, but it was a 5-speed so I'm assuming it has a 915 and not the 930 transaxle. Shifted far better than the two other 915's I've driven recently in SC's, though.

The car has obviously been repainted rather poorly (overspray on the rubber bits) and has some damage...it looks like the frunk lid came unfastened at speed or something. The targa top has a small tear and there are numerous interior issues. Split leather seams, carpet is shot, no heat, blowers are iffy, no A/C parts at all.

He's asking $12k. I'm not even sure how to value something like this. Even if it doesn't need much mechanical work I figure it needs $5-7k of work on brakes, interior, top, and paint touch-up just to be presentable. I have a feel for the SC market but what is the value for a swap like this? Would there be any market if I end up $15-20k deep into it and try to sell it in a few years?

Curious what the experts think and would value any opinions. I can post more pictures if desired but I've rambled enough.

[Reifle]

See if you can get an inspection done by a local Porsche specialist and consider what to offer. I think it may be a bit of an unusual beast but alot of fun as it looks a bit of a sleeper...

[tazzieman]

I'd be a bit concerned about those skinny rear tyres...bit squirrely with all that power on tap? But it's nothing that can't be sorted with $

[spuggy]

A middie with a 930 can be lots of fun - hooligan of a car. It's very easy to yield to irresponsible impulses in a car like that, and boost is definitely habit-forming...

Narrow body sleeper is cool - buy good, sticky, hi-perf tires... 3.2 brakes work OK-ish, but I was happy to upgrade mine. IHMO it'll be terrifying with stock torsion bars/turbo (mine was scary at times with 21/30 TBs and a 3DLZ).

Someone may jump at the chance to buy it later - but beware of getting into 930 price-territory if you intend to resell; market for hot rods can be limited. Very easy to get upside-down on a car like that once you start upgrading because you'll never be able to stop where you think you will.

I'm never selling mine, which solves the problem to my satisfaction.

Get a PPI and figure out what there is there. There's lots of advantages to leaving it tatty, for a daily (even part-year) driver, especially if you want to just park it anywhere.

[Mr Project]

Thanks for the feedback so far. The car has 15" wheels with 215/60 and 225/60 tires, so sticky rubber options are very limited in those tall ratios. Does wonders for the steering and ride quality, though, a very nice feel from the helm on low quality roads.

If I get serious about the car I will get a real PPI done. We're not flush with Porsche specialists around here, but there is one guy I trust and his shop will do one.

Getting severely upside-down is what scares me. I tend to do that anyway....my current driver is a 350+ HP 1986 BMW 735i. Very few people foolish enough to put that much effort into one of those.

If this '77 Targa would be a $6k car with the 2.7, does the 930 engine make it worth an extra $6k? That's what I can't resolve in my mind.

[wasserkuhl]

8 grand. then you have some cash for rubber, brakes and suspension.

[john walker's workshop]

hell yeah!

[304065]

Don't do it.

Porsche's most expensive and powerful engine in a narrow-body chassis not designed for it, in a car that's been sitting for a decade? In the flexy Targa chassis? Not only is that a money pit, it's a money pit with sharp sticks at the bottom.

For a first Porsche, get something that will allow you to experience what it's like to drive a car with 60/40 weight distribution. After a few years of seat time in that, then step up to more power.

My advice to the first-time Turbo owner: treat the accelerator pedal like the trigger of a gun. And that's with 930 rear suspension geometry and wide tires. A pancake manifold with an early, presumably 6,7 to 1 compression ratio and a stock turbo? That is a recipe for snap oversteer when the boost comes on.

And a daily driver besides? That is increasing the risk many times due to the lack of a set of shared expectations about driver behavior on the street.

Now, obviously there are many here with literally decades of experience, for them it's a different story.



Not my car, but that of a close friend who walked away from this mishap but spent several months in a halo. A great driver, boost came on wrong.

[Dan J]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

hell yeah!

x 1000 Totally cool sleeper

[widgeon13]

Frankly, I'd prefer a good solid SC or 3.2for about the same $$.

[jpnovak]

I would go for it.

[Mr Project]

Originally Posted by 304065

Don't do it.

Porsche's most expensive and powerful engine in a narrow-body chassis not designed for it, in a car that's been sitting for a decade? In the flexy Targa chassis? Not only is that a money pit, it's a money pit with sharp sticks at the bottom.

For a first Porsche, get something that will allow you to experience what it's like to drive a car with 60/40 weight distribution. After a few years of seat time in that, then step up to more power.

Thanks for your thoughts, 304065. I should clarify that my first cars were Corvairs and I've always owned at least one, using them as daily transport for many years. Rear-biased weight distribution is not something I'm unaccustomed to. Growing up with Corvairs and early RX-7s on gravel roads and through icy winters will teach you about treating the pedals with respect and understanding what weight transfer means. Not that I'm above making a mistake in a 911, especially a widowmaker like a narrow body 930, but I respect the machine and I get what can happen with that suspension geometry and a short wheelbase.

Actually this car was much less soggy off boost and laggy than I expected for this setup. Any knowledge of tweaks to the motor unfortunately died with the mechanic but it sure didn't feel like a 6.5:1 compression motor off boost. My turbo 3.5l M30 is actually much more violent in power delivery, at least with my limited test drive of this car.

My big concern here is the potential money pit issue. It seems like a high probability.

[Daves911L]

Well, it is a bit of an odd beast. But in a cool sort of way. Good clean highly dangerous fun. I'd buy it!
DG

[drmatera]

I would also go for it but $7500-$8k would be the magic number, no more. Pending a clean bill of health

[304065]

Originally Posted by Mr Project

Thanks for your thoughts, 304065. I should clarify that my first cars were Corvairs and I've always owned at least one, using them as daily transport for many years. Rear-biased weight distribution is not something I'm unaccustomed to. Growing up with Corvairs and early RX-7s on gravel roads and through icy winters will teach you about treating the pedals with respect and understanding what weight transfer means. Not that I'm above making a mistake in a 911, especially a widowmaker like a narrow body 930, but I respect the machine and I get what can happen with that suspension geometry and a short wheelbase.

Actually this car was much less soggy off boost and laggy than I expected for this setup. Any knowledge of tweaks to the motor unfortunately died with the mechanic but it sure didn't feel like a 6.5:1 compression motor off boost. My turbo 3.5l M30 is actually much more violent in power delivery, at least with my limited test drive of this car.

My big concern here is the potential money pit issue. It seems like a high probability.

All right, you pass the first test which familiarity with rear-engine tail happiness.

Corvair? All right, you have a high threshold for pain and the requisite bravado to wade into early 911 ownership. (Welcome to the support group!

If you do move forward, remember that the most expensive Porsche is the one you get for free- there a number of threads here that detail all the trouble spots of the mid-year cars, most of which have to do with rust, and others that describe all the items to change after bringing a car back from long hibernation.

Good luck! Be safe and have fun.

[manbridge 74]

@ Mr Project, you have a PM.

[Les Paul]

Do it. My first Porsche was a 76 930. I was also a former Corvair guy. You'll get used to the boost characteristics real quick.

As many have stated a real sleeper. What tail is that on there? I

[Chuck.H]

Since you have the turbo engine and need a repaint, this is a good time for a wide body kit! When/If my current TL 911 expires, I'll most likely build one from a narrow body Targa...

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 341k miles

[CountD]

Buy it. I think it's an interesting mix and from the sounds of it it looks to be well executed. I wouldn't pay more than $10K though. $9500-$10K I believe it fair. A real sleeper and something that could get addictive and become a keeper.

[Craig_D]

Cool sleeper! If it doesn't have a big above-engine intercooler, I'd throw a ducktail on there, sticky tires, and a good roll cage (see honey, I made it SAFE!)

If you get it, I'd love to watch the progression of the car (lighter, faster, better brakes, better handling...etc, etc)

Cheers,

- Craig_D