Another dreaded "What's it worth?" question...

[LeeH]

I love my '84 Targa. It's optioned just as I would have ordered it from the factory myself - Grand Prix White, color matched 16" wheels, factory spoilers, sport seats, sports shocks... it looks, runs and drives great.

BUT - I think years from now I'll look back at this time and remember it as the period when the early cars were still affordable. I find myself scanning the ads hoping for something interesting.

Well, I found this:

1969 PORSCHE 911E TARGA - rare collector, new engine, rebuilt transmission, new battery & tires, 2nd car made in 1969, $11,995

It's a soft window E Targa. 600 miles on the engine and transmission, factory air. Originally burgandy, is now silver, always a CA or AZ car. Needs paint, no rust, just faded. Seller has a new dash and all new seals waiting to go on with the new paint. The original seats are included - in good shape, but needs new pads on the bottom - but he just put $1600 worth of new Recaros in the car. They should have good resale value. I'll know more when I go see it on Sunday, but based on this info what's a reasonable price?
It sounds like this guy is a perfectionist who planned on restoring the car right, but is in the middle of a nasty divorce and has several other toys.

[bell]

i can't help you with the early car price but i did notice you have an 84' in gp white just like mine

do you have pics of yours?

[LeeH]

Does anybody on this board NOT have a handy photo of their car?

[pwd72s]

Gosh Lee, you already know "Targa"...so I'd say it's a tough choice for you to make. Do you prefer the early car over your '84? Condition of both would be a huge factor in the decision as well...BTW, in the pic, your '84 looks great...

[Charley Dog]

FWIW, by the time you redo the paint (perhaps not just a "simple" respray because of the earlier color change -- depends on how well the prior repaint was done) and interior, you're going to be into this car for *at least* the cost of a near perfect E or T if you paid $12K.

As for prices rising and these cars becoming unattainable... I doubt it. They do get somewhat rarer with time, but there are a lot of them. Inflation offsets the rises in price somewhat as well. IMHO, get one because its the right thing for you to do, not because of the market. They'll always be around.

[cegerer]

As per usual, it's difficult to set a price without at least some photos. Based on the info, $11,995 is too high. Obviously, the new motor could be a big positive - depends upon who built it. But knowing a 'proper' rebuild of motor & trans is a $7,000 to $10,000 proposition, it's seems odd he asking only $12K. Was this maybe a 'cheap' rebuild - just good enough to sell? I'd want to get some documentation on that.

I do think the Soft Window Targas will continue to appreciate in value. There weren't many to begin with and the survivors are already few and far between. The '2nd car built in 69' is an interesting sidenote but doesn't affect the value. Were the original seats factory sport seats? If so, that adds to the value.

Assuming it ONLY needs paint, dash and seats, I'd say $8-$9K. If complete documentation/history is available, I might pay more.

In any case, I think you'll be happy you made the switch to an early car! -- Curt

[jluetjen]

BTW - Make sure the car still has its MFI. Does the car still have the original Boge front struts or have they been replaced? Having the MFI is a big plus (or rather not having it is a big minus). On the other hand, the Boge struts can be a real PIA to fix or replace and I'd consider them a minus unless you are going to concourse the car. From a concourse perspective, I doubt if there is any way to go but with the Boge's. But then I don't know a whole lot about concourses...

Getting a "Soft Window" targa E sounds like an interesting car to me since it was the first year of the E and last year of the soft windows. I think that Porsche made all of the Targa bodies (although it doesn't change the value one way or the other), but it would be interesting to see the VIN. BTW - I've got Karmann bodied E number 51. Assuming that the engine has the original E's MFI, I think that you'll be pleasently surprised by how light and responsive the early MFI'd cars can be.

As far as the price goes, I'd say his asking price is high - but then aren't they all? E's sell for maybe $2000 more then T's which I feel makes them a touch under valued since their performance is half-way to that of an "S", and a lot of them came with "S" options. '69's are somewhat unique since their engines share a lot with the earlier models while their bodies are like the 70's-73's with the longer wheelbase. Generally people like the 70-73's because of the larger engines and there just seem to be a lot more of them. The early number is most likely worth $5 and the uniqueness of the Soft Window a bit more. Condition is everything. If the owner is willing to negotiate, you should be able to get a fair price. Here are some references from watching Ebay listings and sales. All the usual Ebay conditions apply regarding beware the condition, shill bidding, etc. etc. etc.

Model../..When../.. Price ../..Comments
1969 911E../..11/18/01../.. $6,000.00 ../..2.2 motor, some issues. No bids
1969 911 E with 2.2 l motor../..12/14/01../.. $7,000.00 ../..No bids
1969 911E../..1/11/02../.. $2,175.00 ../..Ended early. Reserve not met
1969 911E Targa../..1/17/02../.. $8,499.00 ../..Nice condition, With MFI
1969 911E Coupe../..1/19/02../.. $5,302.00 ../..Some issues, but not bad for a '69. Webers. Reserve not met
1969 911E Coupe../..2/3/02../..$6,000.00 ../..Some issues, but not bad for a '69. Webers. Reserve not met
1969 911E../..3/2/02../..$5,101.00 ../..Reserve not met

[puzurinshushinak]

My first ride in an early car was in a '69E. It made a believer out of me.

I've never understood why Es command such relatively low prices. They are in fact rarer than Ses, and deliver comparable performance except on the high end. Still, as John's data reflect (most impressive, John), they aren't exactly flying off the shelves.

'69 was a great, unique year. The engine and transmission from the ur-911, with the handling eccentricities improved by the longer wheelbase. Keep us posted, Lee.

[LeeH]

I took a trip to see the car in question today. As usual, the seller was being very optimistic about the condition. He made it sound like a simple respray would make the car perfect. However, the previous respray (done in '76 or so) was terrible. All the rubber bits had silver paint on them. But that's OK, they were all dried and cracked anyway. He had a kit that included the basic rubber, not the rubber on the bumpers or the Targa seals. Even the knobs on the dash were cracked.

The left rear fender had been repaired at some point and the bondo was cracking. Virtually every body panel had dings to some degree. It looked like the rear had been bumped slightly so the bumper guards and center panel were not straight.

He claimed the engine had 1000 miles since it was rebuilt, but there were several oil leaks and small puddles under the car. The block was not the original. The guy who did the rebuild used to own a shop, but went out of business and now rebuilds engines from his house(?).

He had lots of parts in boxes; carpet, dash, rear panel, rubber seal kit were all there. All this for only $12,000! I told him I'd guess the car might be worth $5-7,000. He laughed like I didn't know what I was talking about (this is the same guy who looked at my car - pictured above - and said, "That's a '77 model isn't it?"). The seller claims some guy from Oregon called and offered him $9000 sight unseen, but he turned it down.

Oh well. It only cost me a trip across town!