67 911 Restoration $h!t or get off the pot

[Lead_dog]

This 911 has been in my family since it rolled off the showroom floor at Estes-Zipper Beverly Hills in 1967. A California car from bumper to bumper - it’s presently residing in Northern California. This is a matching numbers car. I’ve confirmed the engine and transmission numbers are accurate to the VIN. It is a 911 coupe - no “S”.

I’m looking for input on approximate cost of restoration to daily driver. I’m also seeking input on where in the heck to start.

The engine will need a rebuild. I’m not sure about the trans-axle. The pan is in good shape except the front suspension pan. This will need to be cut out and replaced. Obvious missing parts are: original low-back seats, driver side mirror, and deck lid.

This car was originally black with red interior. I’m guessing the interior was vinyl.

Okay, time for you all to tell me what you think. Should I start this monumental task or get rid of it?

Thanks in advance.




View the entire Album here:

1967 Porsche 911 - a set on Flickr

[giovanni86]

40k?

[Rot 911]

How does a car that has been in one family get this way????

It will have to be a labor of love and in the end will cost you at least as much as it will be worth. Probably more than it is worth.

[Beschleunigt]

Go for it. A car with history like that deserves to stay in the family. It doesn't look terrible to me. I think it will be a good project but by no means is it impossible. If you can do some of the work yourself you will save buckets of money.

Chase
1967 911 Project 307691

[MichiganMike]

I say keep it and start going to town on it! My bro and I restored my car (912) under $9k with no engine or trans work what-so-ever, majority of the work we did ourselves. Ask yourself if you want to make it pristine, or just get it on the road and be able to safely have fun with it. Sounds like you want it to be a daily driver so I think that is doable without spending mega bucks. I agree with Chase, with that cool history behind it, i'd keep it and work on it gracefully through the next few years!

[304065]

Do you WANT a restored 1967 911?

Engine $15,000-$20,000, depending on how bad the prior rebuild is (blue silicone)
Gearbox $2,500
Paint $25,000
Front pan replacement $5,000
Interior $5,000
Chrome $5,000

The good news is, it looks like it's all there. The bad news is, it looks like it needs everything. Hopefully the rust is only in the front pan, probably where the battery leaked during long storage, but rust is the #1 enemy of SWB cars.

Bottom line: restoring one of these cars is not for the faint of heart-- it takes a tremendous amount of money, a tremendous amount of research as to what is correct, a tremendous amount of time, and one other thing:

A tremendous amount of love. Unless you love doing it, you will never spend the above in a way that is rewarding, regardless of the economics.

But it can be done:

[snbush67]

Leave the character, (dings, dents and patina). Address any structural, breaking,mechanical issues, go spartan on the interior (think R).

Just drop the motor and trans and put them in storage. Look in the classifieds here and buy a 3.0 or better motor and trans that has all ready been rebuilt with carbs (be patient and persistent they do show up).

Keep all original parts in case you decide to sell.

Enjoy without worry when someone dings, and have a rat rod sleeper, keep the duck-tail.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by 304065

Do you WANT a restored 1967 911?

Engine $15,000-$20,000, depending on how bad the prior rebuild is (blue silicone)
Gearbox $2,500
Paint $25,000
Front pan replacement $5,000
Interior $5,000
Chrome $5,000

HUH?

Paint $25,000??????

Whre are you getting those numbers?

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by tcar

HUH?

Paint $25,000??????

Whre are you getting those numbers?

Yeah, $25k is way high. $10k should cover more than what you'd need and assuming you're willing to do the disassembly and reassembly, it goes down from there.

Suspension and brakes are another $5k or so though.

[RWebb]

he's near NYC

for less love you can 'restore' it to a ratrod

if you have both body/paint & mech. skills, you can save yourself a LOT of the $$ listed above and still do a full restore

see the Saving the "Rat" - Restoring a 69T thread, active now

[304065]

Originally Posted by tcar

HUH?

Paint $25,000??????

Whre are you getting those numbers?

California or not, every, I mean EVERY, unrestored SWB has rust all over the place. They aren't like the LWB cars, which mercifully got a layer of PVC on the bottom side of the pan along about 1970. SWB cars were put in the oven to bake off the residual oils from stamping of the sheet metal before painting-- this means that there was absolutely no preservative oil on the car whatsoever. Contemporary accounts which you can read about in Up-Fixen say that SWB cars rusted clear through by about 1969.

Here's another fact for you: the undercoating on SWB cars is completely different from that on LWB. Take a look at an unrestored SWB car-- go to the underside and rub your fingers the black undercoating. It will flake off like asphalt potato chips, revealing a brown surface underneath. Over the years, moisture penetrated the SWB undercoating right through the pores of it-- and so you will be hard pressed to find ANY surface on the car that doesn't have rust. The black car you see (the before photos) had rust in the ROOF. And this is not atypical based on SWB cars I have looked at all over the USA.

I looked at a car once, awesome interior, awesome exterior, but the PO (a nice guy who posts here) had invested $7,000 in the paint job without addressing the rust issues. So it had a rusted-through gas tank support and front pan, right where the battery had leaked, and the car just couldn't be confidently driven given that the control arm attaches RIGHT THERE. So what I'm trying to say is, there is absolutely no point in spending $10,000 on a paint job unless the rust is addressed, because it will always come back.

To address all the rust you must sandblast the car to remove it. Then do all your metal work, fabricating new pieces where you must, because SWB sheet metal is mostly NLA. This includes pieces down by the J-tube for the headlight, NLA from anywhere, so you have to have someone make the piece for you. Fortunately, there are craftsmen who can do this.

OK, so you need to change the front pan, not recommended to do it in the driveway if you want the car to track straight and the suspension to work. Finding somebody with a Celette would be best, so you can put the car on the bench and do your welding so it doesn't end up crooked. Plenty of guys do it without, I'm saying that the preferred way to do it is with the bench. Which means all the suspension has to come off, which is fine, because the suspension is toast anyway after 40 years.

OK, so now you've resolved the rust issues. Now you have to paint the car, and assuming you can match the paint correctly (black was 6609, a rare color) in single-stage Glasurit or PPG (nobody uses clearcoat on a SWB, sticks out from 100 feet away) that's no small undertaking-- after you use high-build primer on the surface, it then needs to be blocked, the color shot, then wet sanded. This is actually the easy part.

Then seam sealer everywhere, put on correctly with a brush.

Then Schutz. SWB cars had a particular kind of pattern to the schutz, and it's all over the place-- in the trunk, in the engine compartment, under the floor, inside the rear seat well, everywhere. Knowing where NOT to schutz could fill a couple pages in itself. Then satin black inside the cabin, again in the right spots.

It all adds up. Figure 300 hours to do it right. At $50 an hour, and good luck finding somebody to do it for that, that's $15,000 right there, without materials. Want Glasurit? That's probably a couple grand between the primer and the paint alone, I haven't priced it.

Also not included in that price, but worth mentioning:

Once you've got it apart, are you going to put it back together with brown, corroded, weakened bolts? Nope, so those have to blasted and replated, then sorted out and compared to the parts list before reassembly. Researching that on PET will take you dozens of hours to do correctly and catalog everything.

Suspension parts? The rubber front control arm bushings are about $250 PER SIDE. We're just happy they aren't NLA.

Anyway I could go on, there is no competent restorer in the country who would undertake the restoration of a rusty SWB for which most parts are either no longer available or wrong for the year and have to be modified for $10,000.

Just my own seven years of experience talking.

[lrodri64]

Hi, I just found my first car which happens to be also a 67 normal 911. I found it 26 years later and it is also in need of everything but my plan is to only convert it to a resto rod driver and enjoy it as is. Never to sell it again.

[70SATMan]

Original Black SWBs are rare and very desirable. Throw in the red interior to complete the wow factor.

I'd do everything to keep it.

[jass]

If you decide to sell it I live in northern ca and am interested in a swab car to restore, so drop me a note if you decide to sell it please.

[rick2]

304065 +1
Some really honest good advice. I'd add that the swb cars rusted from the inside out and luckily your car is a cali car. I can't find a sober painter to just spray Glassurit and no body work for 10K here in Orlando.
These cars are a labor of love. If you are questioning the love now wait till the car is apart.

[Jagshund]

I think some of you folks must be high. If you want to drive the car, have the engine rebuilt and stick it back on the road.

Cars need to be sound to drive, not perfect.

[OttoB]

At the end of the day, most people's intentions are based on time, finances, stress tolerance, personal history, and an understanding spouse - in no particular order. Your decision as to what to do with this car has to be based on what you can tolerate. I do not, and at this point in my life, will not begin to wrench on my cars because although I live and breathe automobiles, circumstances are such that its not a realistic possibility. With that in mind, your budget then comes in to mind because unless you can do things yourself, then it is going to cost an arm and a leg to make it running, and looking half way decent.

Not all of us have disposable income for a toy, 2nd - 3rd car, etc. Although there is a long family history/connection with this car, you have to ultimately decide what role your economics will play because seldom are the cars ever going to be worth what you put into them if they are a few years older and have seen their fair of use and neglect. For me, I more than doubled my purchase price on my 1991 turbo (which is not typical) and still have a few things I'd like to upgrade down the road.

Decide how badly/much you want this car to be in decent condition to your standard, and thereafter, begin getting estimates from different shops. I mean, someone here already is of the opinion that the going rate in his neck of the woods for paint is $25K, but where I live, there's several places that can do glass out (w/o rust repair) for $5K - it all depends what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Most of us do not use logic to maintain our cars, or a calculator either - best of luck and let us know what you decide although California likely has more options than most other states in dealing with P-cars!

[James Brown]

good article in excellence december about a 67 R tribute for under 25K. you could do the rehab for a lot less, just depends on you talent. Well looking at the pictures, it will have to come apart right down to the tub, glass out not much salvageable in the interior. clean, clean, clean reassemble very doable on the cheap (er) side.

[Lead_dog]

I'm questioning this labor and I've barely begun.

Thank you for all the valuable input.

Send me a PM if you're interested in purchasing this project.

Thank you.

[Porschenutt]

Someone should have asked you about time frame. If you are in no rush to finish this and you would just "like" to daily drive it, not "need" to daily drive it, then I think you can do this for much less.

Who in the world daily drives a car with a $25K paint job?

Based on your needs, make friends with every Porsche group and forum you can find. Make a list of what you want to address (I agree about getting the running gear redone and leaving as much patina as possible)