930 calipers (used) - worth buying for an '86? how much?

[dickster]

i've done a search and there are alot of threads on this, but they're bloody confusing!!

i've spotted some front/rear 930 calipers for sale. got me thinking.

they're off an '88, and come with front rotors only (rotors have only 5k on them).

are they worth buying for an '86 upgrade? (i have aspirations for a turbo in the future) will it be easy?

i have very limited info on them.
what do i need to know about them?
what would i expect to pay for them?

anything else you can think of??

(sorry, mines a 3.2 carrera)

[addictionMS]

I have a set of 1988 930 brakes on my track car. They are nice brakes, these are the same ones used on the 917s, so there is lots of stopping power and heat dissipation. The pad they use are the same as the 964.

However the rear calipers will not bolt on toyou Carrera, you will need to have them modified, both caliper and banana arm. There is a guy in So CA who did mine, Kevin Roush, he machines the calipers and inlcudes a few spacers for about $250.00. You will need to drill a hole in your banana arm, and grind off a small mounting tab used for the rear heat shield.

Last thing you will need to do is get a 23mm master cylinder so you can now push all the brake fluid needed for the parger pistons.

I would guess"

The brakes (calipers/rotors) should cost between $1000-$1300

The modifications $250

The 23mm master $100

total $1350-$1650

Not sure if this is the best upgrade you can get to the money, but I like mine.


PS if you are not going for the brakes can you connect me you I would consider gettting them as spares....


Thanks

Jim

[tshih]

The conversion of regular narrow bodied carreras to turbo wide body chassis brake upgrades involve getting the turbo hardware (calipers, rotors, pads) in addition to wheels (Fuchs 7x16 inch fronts and 9x16 rears, wider wheels used on turbo 930's) and appropriate spacers to provide proper clearance of calipers after adapters for mounting the calipers have been found (because turbo suspension struts are not identical to lesser duty carrera struts). In addition the master cylinder may need to be upgraded.

For what it's worth you're better off trading up to a real turbo or turbo-look after time and effort plus dollars( or pounds) have been calculated into the equation.

Tom

[addictionMS]

tshih is right, I forgot that I had to have a 1/8" spacers made for the rear and my front is a full 930. So his points about the track/spacers is true there as well. I have the standard 911 fenders and in my class (this is a race car) I am allowed 225s on the front, but I can only fit in 205 because of the wider track on the 930. It appears only to be in the hub, so spacers would work there as well. But spacers usually mean new studs, an additional cost.

Jim

[dickster]

so i guess what you're saying is its a real PITA job, and not really worth the trouble

i had a feeling this was going to be the answer.

i've got no intention of getting shot of the car, but would be interested in worth while upgrades.

thanks for saving me some hard earned

jim - no problem. i'll get back to you. you do realise i'm in the uk-and so are the calipers??

[katigbr]

It is possible to use the 930 calipers on a narrow bodied car with 15" rims without spacers if you have the faces machined a few millimeters. These are commonly done by the folks that offer the 930 brake upgrade kits (Rennsport Systems, VCI, etc). .

It looks like there are a couple of ways to convert to 930 brakes. The primary task is to provide places to bolt on the calipers. Some will machine just the calipers, relocating the mounting holes to allow it to fit to the trailing arms and others will machine the trailing arms. Regardless of the method, some trailing arm mods may be required and usually involve removing two locating tabs on the arm near the hub.

If you get the right machining on the calipers the upgrade is pretty straightforward. The most complicated is the master cylinder upgrade. I needed to route new feeder lines and a longer brake pedal shaft.

Well worth it on the track. No fade and no locking up.

Regards,
Rick

[KTL]

Front's an easy upgrade. 930 calipers bolt right on since they have the same spacing as the wide Carrera A calipers. You need a special rotor. That's the kicker. Not cheap.

Rear is as others described.

Thom Fitzpatrick (widebody 911) has a good overview on his experience:

930/944T brakes on SC/Carrera

[dickster]

Front's an easy upgrade. 930 calipers bolt right on since they have the same spacing as the wide Carrera A calipers. You need a special rotor. That's the kicker. Not cheap.

is it that easy? no spacers, drilling, milling, cutting, etc

std wheels? what rotors would i need?

is it worth doing the fronts and leaving the rear?

sorry, but i'm really not clear on this guys

[Bill Verburg]

As others have pointed out the 930 calipers will bolt onto your front struts as they have the same 3.5" transverse mount ears as your existing wide A calipers. Unfortunately the late('80-'89) 304x32 1 piece 930 front rotors are inappropriate for use on an SC/Carrera front flare car due to the offset built into them. Thoms car has the correct front flares to take advantage of them a normal SC/Carrera does not. If '78-'79 3 piece floating assemblies can be obtained that would work fine with your existing hubs. The '78-'79 930 rotors used a separate spacer to get the offset needed for the 930 front flares, just discard the spacer. If the '78-'79 rotor assemblies are not available then you will need to get some custom hats(zero offset) and aftermarket rotors to bolt to your existing hubs, these can be obtained from a number of sources such as VCI et al. Spacers or minor machining to the caliper face may be necessaary depending on rims(7" +23.3 os Fuchs definately imply ~4mm spacer or machining of the fins).

In the back the issues are reversed. The '78-'89 930 309x28 1 piece rotors will bolt on and retain the existing parking brake. Just discard the 911 dust shields(or replace with 930 pieces). Unfortunately the calipers have 3.5" transverse mounting ears while the trailing arm has the 911 3" spacing. Sometimes the caliper is modified, sometimes the arm, sometimes both. If 8" Fuchs are used a small spacer or minor machining of the caliper fins is required. 9" Fuchs will clear with room to spare.

As far as the m/c is concerned the 19mm has been used sucessfuly by many folks but does have a relatively long throw. Your Carrera has a 20.6mm mc and will work fine as is. For the highest firmest pedal do change to the 930 23.81mm unit which will also bolt in to your car w/o any problems

[KTL]

See??? All it takes is a little bit of info. to get him started, and Bill V. will inevitably follow up with most everything you need to know! Rock on Bill!

[dean]

I paid $800 for my set of 930 calipers. Then I had to mach. the rears. I used OE 79 rotors with custom hats. I don't think it was too much of a pain to do the conversion. Just expensive. I think I paid @ $2700 total. Would I do it over? If I had the money, sure would

[addictionMS]

richardnelson,

I had not noticed you were in the UK, so shipping the rotors would not make much sense...bummer....and your shipping the calipers to LA to get them modified would not make too much sense either, double bummer.

As a final remark, I would look at what others have done as alternatives to the 930s, I know there is a 944 tubo combo that works as well. I would not do just the fronts, you would end up with miss match on the braking of your car and that would likely do more harm than good. There is a email group I am part of and they are in the middle of a million email debate on the effects of braking and changing the braking system, considering things from caliper piston size to cooling options to tore size and down force, way to complicated to repeat, but the conculsion anyone can draw is the braking system on a car is complex and easily disrupted.

Good hunting

Jim

[dickster]

bill

top bloke, i understand now.

thanks everyon for the input.

i'm not really looking at other options at the moment. i just saw these for sale, and if i could get them at the right price.....got me thinking.

[GeorgeM]

Richard,

Check out the post titled 944T/968 Brake Upgrades for Carrera (or something like that) that I posted a few weeks ago, lots of great info.

My research led me to the 930 upgrade for my '89 coupe. There are a couple of 944T upgrades as well, some with big turbo rotors, some with smaller rotors. If you're going to spend the cash, get the biggest rotor you can which, for 16in wheels, is the size that was on the 930.

Check out Rennsport Systems (Steve), Vehicle Craft (Doug), and Powerhaus (Chris). RS and VCI recommend the 930 setup. Powerhaus has a 944T/964 setup that uses 930 sized rotors. Email them and they'll send you the specifics. The Powerhaus kit is less expensive than the 930 kit (as are the used calipers).

Regardless, you will need a custom front rotor/hat for your narrow body car. These universally go for about $700-750 for the pair. Expect to pay about $300-350 for the rears, which are stock 930 rotors. You can likley find someone to machine the calipers for you (they have a "you provide the calipers" deal as well), but you're still going to have to fork over the bucks for the front rotors, so Dean's cost assessment is about right. Make sure whoever you get to do the work knows what they're doing with your expensive turbo calipers though (VCI's website has a great photo description of their mod process).

I just went for the turnkey setup. It wasn't cheap, but I'd been saving up the cash and got tired of looking for nice used 930 calipers.

These calipers are becoming very rare and highly sought after. If you find a nice set and get a good deal, I'd say buy them regardless. You will be able to get your money back later, whether they are modified or not.

Good Luck.

[dickster]

GeorgeM

thanks for the info. i'm checking it all out!

if i can get them cheap enough i'll buy them anyway, and if anyone wants them...........

[Bill Verburg]

Heres a link to Georges post link

He also correctly identified 3 of the better US vendors. Each has its own strengths. Steve Weiner at Rennsport is a great guy and sells some very nice brake kits, strength anodized rotors not generally available from others, Chris Cervelli at Power Haus, also a great guy, very helpful, willing to machine your calipers or sell a kit, generally very competitive pricing. I've dealt with them on several occasions and never been disappointed. Doug Arnao at VCI also a great guy, very helpful has some options that other don't.

If you are willing to go to 17" rims Pelican has a very nice all Brembo kit, unfortunately when the front, rear, and wheel/tire issue are all dealt with the price becomes a bit much for most people.

Then there is this ceramic kit(the ultimate?)


In Europe you have another option not generally available for older Porsches on the west side of the Atlantic, Mov'It sells some very nice kits.

[dickster]

bill

thank you, you are a mine of information and a gent

[82SC]

alot of those retarded 930 questions were by me while I was researching...

what I got was 930 brakes are great...

pricewise 930 vs 993tt are similar...

the 993 require bigger wheels...

so if you want to stay period, keep your fuchs and have brakes that are partially historic...930's are the way to go

if you want all out stopping power and new rims...993's

Personally I like the 930's and the hunt is part of the fun...

if you have flared front fenders then rotors are easy...narrowede bodies take some doing...

have fun!!!

[dickster]

sorry, decided to start new thread!