'78 SC Elephant Racing Suspension Rebuild

[Qcurtis88]

Update!

We noticed the strut tubes had been painted and the paint got inside the tubes messing with the movement of the inserts. In addition we did what Craig and a few others suggested which was moving the spacers around + added a little length to the tie rods. All 3 of these combined and we now have a decent bit of travel.

That said, shes still veryyyy stiff. Over damped it seems as when you press or lift the nose the suspension moves but just stays there. They're off the shelf bilstein HDs and Im running stock TBs.

In addition when we removed the old rack spacer bump steer for this new setup, I now have a couple degrees left and right of slop in the steering wheel before the rack engages that wasn't there a week ago. I checked the smugglers box where the coupler is and everything is fine there, so much be down in the rack itself.

Last thing Ill add is the tie rods have one small spacer on the bottom and the rest on top, and at ride height they're still angled up a bit (not parallel to the ground or control arm).

Any additional thoughts is appreciated!

[Craig_D]

Paint on the strut tube? That's a first for me.

Hey, so have you driven the car yet, or is this just "bench" testing?

Regarding the steering rack, you shouldn't have any slop, but if you haven't aligned the car yet, you could just be out of whack, alignment wise.

But again, have you driven on this setup yet?

[Qcurtis88]

Yeah the paint thing was a surprise but after sanding it made quite a difference.

Yes car has been aligned and driven - biggest issue atm is the few degrees of slop in the wheel. Turn in is more "dead" than before because you've got to turn the wheel a bit before the tires turn. Outside of that, it drives pretty well. Hard to fully compare before and after with the slack in the wheel (it was also incredibly dialed in before).

Going to take it to Johnsons Alignment in La whos a guru and I suspect hes going to make a world of a difference. He'll do a full corner balance, re set the bumpsteer, and alignment. More to come!

[arrivederci]

Originally Posted by Qcurtis88

Yeah the paint thing was a surprise but after sanding it made quite a difference.

Yes car has been aligned and driven - biggest issue atm is the few degrees of slop in the wheel. Turn in is more "dead" than before because you've got to turn the wheel a bit before the tires turn. Outside of that, it drives pretty well. Hard to fully compare before and after with the slack in the wheel (it was also incredibly dialed in before).

Going to take it to Johnsons Alignment in La whos a guru and I suspect hes going to make a world of a difference. He'll do a full corner balance, re set the bumpsteer, and alignment. More to come!

Are you saying there was paint on the strut shaft that was preventing the strut from compressing?

[AutoXer23]

Nice work !!!!
I just tore down my entire suspension. This page is perfect for reference

[Qcurtis88]

Car has been with the porsche suspension/alignment guru all day. We set the bumpsteer properly. We also broke down the struts, greased up the bearings & packed the insert with grease. It was bone dry. Was hopeful this would help... but sadly still seems overly stiff for off the shelf bilsetins and stock TBs. We got the car all back together and tried the push test again. Kneeing all our weight on the front nose the car moves down just an inch or so (tough) then sticks in place. Pull the nose up, same thing - moves an inch and sticks. Zero rebound.

Drove the car around the block and hit some speed bumps to see. The front suspension does move... its just far stiffer than I'd ever imagine for Bilstein HDs. Even the guru thinks something is up. Said maybe they just need to cycle the grease a bit? Anyways - I wanted peice of mind so I've got a fresh set of bilsteins coming tomorrow as these were bought second hand after they sat on a project for 5-6 years. Guy said they never saw the road but... who knows? Guess we'll find out tomorrow if its an insert issue.

Question to the larger group. Anyone running Bilstein HDs with stock TBs, if you walked out to your garage and put your full weight on the nose of the car, would you see any sport of rebound after you release the weight? Or is this a typical level of stiffness (just seems way too stiff but maybe thats how it should be)

Last piece of context - the car was on green Bilsteins (non raised spindles) before and drove like an absolute dream. I mention this to rule out control arm bushings, etc as that variable hasn't changed.

[Qcurtis88]

Regarding on the road driving experience - flat road it feels "fine". But hit a bump or slight divot and the suspension shows no rebound. Feels like the wheels skip over the tops of the bumps/divot and goes light in weight. Basically how you'd imagine a suspension with no rebound would feel over bumps.

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[safe]

If you have the insert out, you should be able to compres it all the way with your body weight , might be slow, and it should push out again to its full length also quite slow.

Are you sure its Bilstein HD ? Whats the part number?
There are Bilstein club sport (also called Rennen I) and Rennen II, they are very stiff.

[safe]

If you have the insert out, you should be able to compres it all the way with your body weight , might be slow, and it should push out again to its full length also quite slow.

Are you sure its Bilstein HD ? Whats the part number?
There are Bilstein club sport (also called Rennen I) and Rennen II, they are very stiff.

[Qcurtis88]

Originally Posted by safe

If you have the insert out, you should be able to compres it all the way with your body weight , might be slow, and it should push out again to its full length also quite slow.

Are you sure its Bilstein HD ? Whats the part number?
There are Bilstein club sport (also called Rennen I) and Rennen II, they are very stiff.

Yes they're B HDs stamped 5001 (stock valving). Ill give this a try today

[Focker]

I suspect there is an issue with the inserts.

[911 Rod]

My sports don't compress when I push on the bumper.

[Bill Verburg]

Bilsteins have ~300psi internal pressure which exerts an extensive force of ~45#

pushing on the bumper isn't likely to move them much, as you are pushing the shock and t-bar, but if they are out of the shock body you should be able to compress them w/ a bit of body english

If you do this I'd love to get some measurements to see how yours compares to this

[Qcurtis88]

Ill be able to push my body weight onto the current inserts vs the new ones today to see if theres any difference in compression lbs needed and rebound speed. I'll be quite surprised if this stiffness is intentional with stock TBs. It rides like a go kart with no suspension over bumps. My head bounces/porpoises on the highway when I hit some bumps. Wildly unforgiving with the current HDs in

More to come

[safe]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

ushing on the bumper isn't likely to move them much, as you are pushing the shock and t-bar

I agree. On my car if I stand on the sills with my 220ish and "jump", its just the 45 profile tires that deflect... But that is with club sport Bilsteins and 21/29 bars. When I corner its pretty compliant and soft.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Qcurtis88

Ill be able to push my body weight onto the current inserts vs the new ones today to see if theres any difference in compression lbs needed and rebound speed. I'll be quite surprised if this stiffness is intentional with stock TBs. It rides like a go kart with no suspension over bumps. My head bounces/porpoises on the highway when I hit some bumps. Wildly unforgiving with the current HDs in

More to come

Did you mention your rie height?

a - b

[Qcurtis88]

Bit of progress today. New inserts are quite a bit softer than my current HDs. Not too sure why as I was told they were stock, off the shelf Bilstein HDs. Anyways... good to know I wasn't going crazy on that front.

Regarding the rebound or car sticking when the nose is pressed down or lifted up, I have a new hypotheses. To put in the new (and old) inserts, the shaft going through the small hole to where the pin gets set required a decent bit of force with a hammer. Guru said more than it should have. Once the shaft was through it moved better. I'm thinking when Rebel Racing did the 19mm raised spindle, maybe it got too hot and slightly warped the strut tube ever so slightly. .5 mm or so?

Maybe this will be worked out after a few hundred miles / cycles? Is sanding the opening where the shaft goes through an option? Whats your thoughts here? This additional friction would make sense as to why it doesn't rebound like expected..no?

[Qcurtis88]

And maybe its not the opening/hole, rather the tube itself got warped ever so slightly?

[Qcurtis88]

Got the car back today and hit the canyon. Car feels incredibly darty and unstable during weight transfers. I was on a straight, heavy on the gas. Got onto the brakes (still going straight) and the car got super unstable, swaying left and right (very sketchy / white knuckle moment).

Leads me to believe even more that the struts are bound and not allowing the front to load / rebound properly, hence the darty/squirelly feeling.

Real shame as its taken so much time and $ to get these on, aligned, corner balanced, etc just to find they're bent and a new set need to be made and put on. Not to mention the car was an absolute dream to drive 2 weeks ago.. Classic 1 step forward 3 steps back.