83 CIS Warm Up Regulator Attachment

[GaryDG]

Hi All

I was setting up to perform CIS Fuel Pressure tests, and I inadvertently removed the banjo from the Warm Up Regulator shown in the attached picture. The small side of the banjo threads into the housing of the regulator and couples with another line that goes to the bottom back of the FD. The larger side connects to the hose that goes to the top center of the Fuel Distributor.

My question is to confirm that hole through the side does not have to align somehow with the "other" hose. That is I simply bolt it back in and I'm good to go.

Thanks again!

[boyt911sc]

Gary,

Please post picture of your WUR including the part number (0-438-140-???). The last 3 digits that are stamped on the body of the WUR will identify it. That fitting you have is not the correct fitting for your WUR but if it works why not. Is your SC a US model or RoW model?

Tony

[schumicat]

Tony knows his CIS stuff.

those bolts w/ holes are used with banjo bolts (hollow bolt with a loop on the end). the banjo bolt has a groove on the inner surface that lines up with the hole. so the hole doesn't need to be in any particular orientation.

[ossiblue]

Yes, follow Tony's advice and post your numbers and a picture, if possible. As mentioned, the fitting you show is for a banjo connector and the hole doesn't have to be lined up. The real question is, why do you have a banjo fitting with a separate line on the inlet side of the wur?

Early CIS (73.5-74) had a banjo fitting and separate line but it was connected at the fuel distributor, just ahead of the line that goes to the wur. This line went to the throttle body, just under the air cleaner housing, and was for the throttle positioner valve. You have an 83 which I am not familiar with (but Tony is!) so I'm not aware of any bleed-off lines that would be there. If your engine has an early CIS(?), it's possible someone moved the location of the throttle by-pass to the wur from the fuel distributor. Does the line you describe as "going somewhere" connect to the throttle body?

Regardless, you need to let us know the number on the wur, and a picture of the set-up, if you can.

[Scott R]

No, it doesn't align. Just screw it back into the WUR and tighten it until the crush ring seats. This happens all of the time when you disconnect the wur line.

[GaryDG]

Thanks for your feedback!

The car is WOR, bought it in Germany 1985, had it coverted to FED/CA standards in Irvine.

I have posted a couple other pictures, to attempt to answer Tony's question.

The number stamped on the top of the WUR is 980.

The "Banjo line" ultimately connects back up to the Accumulator but it also connects with other lines as you may be able to see. That is a pretty busy area of the engine.

Also, Ossiblue, refers to this (current threaded hole in WUR as the Inlet side) isn't this the outlet side - more importantly when I do my cold start pressure test I am doing it by connecting one of the two hoses to my original image and the other to the top of the distributor - is the correct?

[pete3799]

That banjo fitting is the return line back to the fuel tank. It is teed into the bottom of the accumulator.
The other steel line to the WUR is the one you want to hook the fuel pressure gauge to.

[GaryDG]

Pete,

Do you mean the steel line that connects to the top of my original picture or the steel line that connects to the side that is still connected?

If it to the line that is still connected then when I run the pressure test do I connect the second test hose to the FD connection of the line that is still connected to my WUR?

TXS!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by GaryDG

Pete,

Do you mean the steel line that connects to the top of my original picture or the steel line that connects to the side that is still connected?

If it to the line that is still connected then when I run the pressure test do I connect the second test hose to the FD connection of the line that is still connected to my WUR?

TXS!

Gary,

If I understood you correctly, the banjo fitting is installed with the fuel line from the fuel distributor? And this banjo fitting has a hose connected to the bottom of the fuel accumulator? Then how could you generate the control fuel pressure with this configuration?????? I doubt if you could even make the engine to idle with this set-up!!!!!

Make it simple and correct. For your WUR, you need one (1) inlet from the FD and no other extra attachment. Delete this banjo fitting because who ever made this set-up was mis-guided.

Tony

[GaryDG]

Tony

It sounds like you do understand what I said but let me say it a bit differently. Referring to my second picture which shows the WUR, the line on the left (connected) goes to the bottom rear of the fuel distributor. The threaded hole on the right, uses the banjo fitting to hold the line (that sits to the right (in the picture) in place when threaded into place. The top of the banjo fitting then connects to the top of the fuel distributor.

Two questions: 1) does the line from the top center of the FD connect to the intake side of the WUR (in my case the threaded hole)? 2) The last time anyone did anything to the WUR was 4/'93 and it's run since then?

[timmy2]

Normally the line that is "spliced into" for the gauge setup is the one that runs from the FD to the WUR. As yours is a steel line tha you really don't want to bend, remove the line and connect the gauge where the line was.
Reconnect what you have removed on the banjo bolt so it looks the same as when you removed it.
A picture taken a bit further back showng the steel line running from the wur to the FD by the airbox would help.
Here's a picture of mine, the line runs from the wur to the top "center" fitting of the FD.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by GaryDG

Tony

It sounds like you do understand what I said but let me say it a bit differently. Referring to my second picture which shows the WUR, the line on the left (connected) goes to the bottom rear of the fuel distributor. The threaded hole on the right, uses the banjo fitting to hold the line (that sits to the right (in the picture) in place when threaded into place. The top of the banjo fitting then connects to the top of the fuel distributor.

Two questions: 1) does the line from the top center of the FD connect to the intake side of the WUR (in my case the threaded hole)? 2) The last time anyone did anything to the WUR was 4/'93 and it's run since then?

Gary,

Check your fuel pressures (control and system) with your current set-up by running the FP. Do not alter anything for the moment. Could you could check the last 3 digits of the WUR? Are you certain it is 980? And not 089? I've never seen a 980 before in an SC!!!!

Answer to your questions
1). The fuel line from the center of the FD goes to the inlet of the WUR which is the one closer to the intake #1. The return or outlet is the one nearer to intake #2. The fuel pressure gauge is hooked in series to the line coming from the center of the FD to WUR inlet (in your case, line with the banjo).

With the banjo line connected to the pressure control line, I don't how you could measure the control pressure correctly.

2). Have you seen this engine run with this set-up before? I doubt but I could be wrong. To prove me wrong, try to run the engine. And good .luck!!!!!!!

Tony

[GaryDG]

Thanks for that clairification guys. Yes the car ran with this configuation. The last time the WUR was worked on (cleaned out) was in April 1993.

Maybe it is 086, reading upside down. See first new pic.





Another obstacle in performing cold control test. CIS 101 says perform the cold control test with electrical removed from the WUR. Removing the left connection was easy but how is the right connection removed? I could probably do it but I might damage it in the process.

[Bob Kontak]

There is a spring wire clasp that is parallel with the top of the WUR near the base. It can be completely separated from the connection to allow it to come loose.

[GaryDG]

Bob,

Thanks, I did see something like that I'll go back out there (32-33 degrees) and see if I can remove it.

[boyt911sc]

Gary,

The 086 shown in the picture is not the ID #. That's the cast number. Your WUR is so oxidized that you need to scrape the surface to read the identification number located at the base by the black rubber hose in your picture (top side of the picture). I'm away from home traveling so I have no access to my home computer.

Someone might come to the rescue and post a picture of a WUR showing the ID# Like this: 0-438-140-xxx. (Hope I remember the number correctly).

I hate to bring the bad news, with the current set-up you have, you'll be spending your time trying to get this engine to run. It may start during cold start but would not run like it should because the control pressure is compromised.

Tony

[GaryDG]

Removing that spring worked!

Tony
I look again and cleaned the area 99% certain it is 983 is WUR number BOSCH.

Your logic about not running well when warm is due to the "Banjo line"?

MY CIS Cold test>

I followed these steps from the CIS Primer:

Switch on fuel pump with electrical connection to WUR unplugged. Read system pressure, valve closed.

Pressure read: 21 psi


Open valve, read and record WUR control pressure for cold engine.

Pressure read: 18

With fuel pump running, plug in electrical connector on WUR. Watch for pressure to increase, valve still open. When pressure stops rising, note reading.

Pressure read:14

However, I noticed that I did not hear the pump running as I have in the past when I completed these tests. Not sure why, but as Tony recommended before I will run a volume test taking fuel from the input to the Accumulator.

Assuming incorrect volume then either pump check valve(can that be repaired?), relay or pump (pulled tank filter and it looked very good).

[boyt911sc]

Gary,

Do a systematic test procedure. Start first with the evaluation of the FP. Now that you have a pressure gauge kit, use pressure to determine the condition of your FP. Connect the pressure gauge to the FP directly with valve close. Run the FP no longer than 5 sec. Just enough time to read the max.delivery pressure. If the FP delivers less than 90 psi., it is on the low side of the spectrum. These FP's could achieve as much as 100 psi. Do several tests.

Next step, if the FP is good, is to measure the system fuel pressure (70 - 72 psi.). This will give you an idea about your FD setting. If the system pressure is out of spec, don't bother about the control fuel pressure at this stage.

Either the FP is good or bad, no if..........Keep us posted.

Tony

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by GaryDG

Tony

It sounds like you do understand what I said but let me say it a bit differently. Referring to my second picture which shows the WUR, the line on the left (connected) goes to the bottom rear of the fuel distributor. The threaded hole on the right, uses the banjo fitting to hold the line (that sits to the right (in the picture) in place when threaded into place. The top of the banjo fitting then connects to the top of the fuel distributor.

Two questions: 1) does the line from the top center of the FD connect to the intake side of the WUR (in my case the threaded hole)? 2) The last time anyone did anything to the WUR was 4/'93 and it's run since then?

I don't want to confuse the issue here as Tony has you on the right track and definitely test your fuel pump.

However, this last post is very telling. You said, "the line on the left (connected) goes to the bottom rear of the fuel distributor." That statement refers to the hard line still attached to your wur. From your description, it sounds like it connects to the pressure relief valve on the bottom rear of the fuel distributor, which should be connected to the return line back to the tank. If so, someone routed the return from the fuel distributor through the wur, for some reason.

You say, "The top of the banjo fitting then connects to the top of the fuel distributor". What this means is this top line on the fitting is coming from the fuel distributor and, immediately , fuel is being bled off through the lower line. The result would be too low of fuel pressure, plus the inability to regulate that pressure as the wur has been effectively by-passed.


The pressures you posted fall into this scenario though it could be the fuel pump. Regardless, if what you've posted is correct about where the lines run--both to and from the wur--someone has seriously fouled up the correct plumbing and it's surprising the car runs at all.

Please, let us know what you find out.

[jeffs9146]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I don't want to confuse the issue here as Tony has you on the right track and definitely test your fuel pump.

However, this last post is very telling. You said, "the line on the left (connected) goes to the bottom rear of the fuel distributor." That statement refers to the hard line still attached to your wur. From your description, it sounds like it connects to the pressure relief valve on the bottom rear of the fuel distributor, which should be connected to the return line back to the tank. If so, someone routed the return from the fuel distributor through the wur, for some reason.

You say, "The top of the banjo fitting then connects to the top of the fuel distributor". What this means is this top line on the fitting is coming from the fuel distributor and, immediately , fuel is being bled off through the lower line. The result would be too low of fuel pressure, plus the inability to regulate that pressure as the wur has been effectively by-passed.


The pressures you posted fall into this scenario though it could be the fuel pump. Regardless, if what you've posted is correct about where the lines run--both to and from the wur--someone has seriously fouled up the correct plumbing and it's surprising the car runs at all.

Please, let us know what you find out.

I agree that the lines seem to be hooked together! There should only be one line from the top center of the AFR (fuel distributor) to the WUR and yours has two comming from the WUR!!

Look at Timmy2's photo and you can see the correct line from the WUR to the AFR!