Conundrum: Let my mechanic fix or not ?

[Deschodt]

I'm in a pickle, I'd like your educated opinion...

18 months ago, I bought a 72 911T in need of restoration. My shop had a 911 guy who did the motor, but then they decided to move the shop to a nicer bigger location and things went south. The partners split up, a new partner came in, the new location had them lose a few customers, and all in all, their situation is iffy. Also the 911 guy is the one who left. I've only driven the car 4 times in 18 months, but I finally have it back (it also got painted, so that chewed up some more time)

Now my car runs fantastic, but.... it is leaking oil post rebuild on my brand new SSIs and that is not acceptable. There seem to be possible leaks at one return tube (new), upper valve covers (the lower ones are new and turbo style), and... possibly between the passenger head and cylinder. Which could be a bad gasket or a pulling stud or both... Can't discuss with the builder, he's gone. At least the resealed case is dry.

They have kindly offered to take it out again and redo all of the above, free of charge. Which is the right thing to do, I'm a good customer. But a) they lost their expert - they said they'd bring in an old timer expert from another shop to assist b) They said one month to play it safe, but they suck at respecting time estimates, and in the back of my mind I'm worried they *could* go under while my engine is apart. Then what ?

So, any of you guys have experience with something like that ? Would you risk it, for a free "done right" job that would certainly cost me $$$ elsewhere ? Legally speaking if they roll down the steel curtain with my car inside, am I good to pick it up ? I really don't think they would screw me on this, they are trying to do the right thing and I've had a good relation ship with them, but I'm hesitant to stick my car in there for an extended period of time. Legally speaking, how am I standing ?

[Nickshu]

I would take it back to them to repair but have a sit down with the new owner first and voice your concerns, then make your final decision. If they truly are a good shop in a bad situation they will make it right. Hopefully they got the rebuild right and this is just a minor deal that is not rocket science to fix.

[john walker's workshop]

i would have a real porsche shop tell you where the leak is coming from first. it may be an easy fix and worth paying them to fix it, rather than hoping the original shop can pull it off properly.

[Deschodt]

Ugh, tricky... If another shop did it, and it turns out there is more $$ involved, it's gonna be on me...vs. another free attempt. I don't see a guarantee either way ! Wish I was closer to John Walker's shop - couldn't be further though ;-) They are bringing in a guy that I've heard of as an expert rebuilder, so I'm not as worried about expertise as I am about them staying in business. I could be wrong, too...

Tough one. I think from a legal standpoint, I should be able to retrieve my car no matter what. Possibly in boxes though...

[weseeeee]

Go for it but keep a close eye on the shops progress. The issues sound like they can be corrected with a few gaskets and some torque specs. This should not take a month.

P.S. If you are anywhere near Palm Bch there are a number of quality P-car shops that can sort your cars issues. I use Klub Sport Racing. Good Luck Al

[FastCarFan]

Why does it take 1 month to fix a mistake? They should put other projects on hold & make your car right - your car should go to the front of the line.

Good luck.

[Deschodt]

Okay, I went there and spent an hour chatting with everyone from the 2 owners to the mechanics... I'm dropping it off next week.

The leaks are basically upper valve covers (easy) and heads to jugs sealing, particularly one where you can see coking already. What they tell me probably happened is that the guy who did it (and is now *gone*) probably started it up without proper torque on the heads. Whatever anaerobic sealant/gaskets were beat up and not sealing perfectly anymore...

The plan is they will take the engine out and strip the heads too, box that up and take it to another shop which is well known in the area, and whose head mechanic is a friend of my current mechanic. That guy has done 100s of 911s and will redo the heads/jugs/torqueing/gaskets/whatever right. My shop will then they'll put it back on for me, and we'll be good....

There is no huge concern of potiential big issues because the engine runs fantastically well, actually even the leakdown is not that bad. 6-8%, it should be less post rebuild but considering the sealing issues we think we are having, it runs really nice. Just leaks a bit too much ;-)

I've received assurances from both owners that they have turned a corner and will remain in business, however they had to deal with a big mess from the guy who left, financially. As they told me, it wouldn't make sense for them to offer to redo this engine (and farm it out at their cost) only to close the door next week. The did admit that they will stay away from such jobs in the future though, because everyone is taking a bath on this ;-)

So I feel better, sounds like a simple reseal job here and there, and they did say it was a 3 day job, but all in all they'd rather quote me 3 weeks and come out early than the opposite. Which is a nice change in attitude. Wish me luck, I'll keep you all posted !

[kkkarpuk]

I personally wouldn't take my 911 back there. Since owning my car I have met a lot of guys at shops that would say anything to get or keep my business. Listen to what John Walker says, there is no substitute for expertise. I wouldn't want someone learning on my car.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by kkkarpuk

I personally wouldn't take my 911 back there. I wouldn't want someone learning on my car.

Well, the alternative is to pay someone else several thousand dollars to do this (with the possibility that, not trusting other people's work, they decided to redo everything for even more $). I don't see the harm in getting it done for free, and if you read my last post, *they* aren't doing it: it's being done elsewhere, by someone who knows how. In fact my mechanic (the one left behind, with little 911 engine build experience) was the first to say that he did not want to learn on my car, hence them farming it out. I don't see that I have much to lose as long as I'm confident of them not closing the shop on me, which I feel better about. The car really runs well, it's just that one leak.
And yes, if John walker was closer, I would have driven it there in the first place ;-)

[weseeeee]

Happy to hear that things are looking better for you. If it's not right when you get it back, I'm sure you can find someone to make it right. I wouldn't want to pay for their mistake if I didn't have to. Good luck. Al

[RWebb]

Have them tell you where the work is being done - "it's being done elsewhere, by someone who knows how"

[hcoles]

I think it was said.... but, it seems strange that they say they will bring in an expert to check on an oil leak, really? Marginal that they would do that, very marginal that they say they will do that. That's my 2 cents.

[john walker's workshop]

you should never take a 911 to a shop that doesn't know them.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

i would have a real porsche shop tell you where the leak is coming from first. it may be an easy fix and worth paying them to fix it, rather than hoping the original shop can pull it off properly.

This is great advice, as it is all too often that a negative black cloud can 'cloud' your judgement and make you think there is more wrong than there is - easy to do with something that you paid a lot for. It may in fact be easier and less time consuming than you actually think when the dust settles and the kinks are ironed out.

[dshepp806]

Porsche shops ONLY,..THAT's the KEY (as John noted)..I mean this in the purest sense.

BEST!

Doyle

[fasterlaster]

Sounds as if the current owners have at least inspired you enough to return the car for what should hopefully be a fix. Since they are estimating a long time (way long in my opinion, but perhaps that is how they are keeping extra costs down) stop by every few days. Don't call, physically stop in, and check on it. If anything bad is going down, you may catch it first, and it may also have the side effect of pushing them to complete it. Plus if they do end up turning the corner, and become your shop, it may be a cool place to hand about on a weekend.

[dshepp806]

As RWebb noted: get the info on "who" is involved with the rebuild/work.

BEST!

Doyle