Drove a 996 today...

[widebody911]

And I wasn't impressed.

Sure, it was comfy, had A/C that would scare an Eskimo, but when I closed my eyes, I could pretend I was in a Buick.

The car has no character. It looks pretty, but when you step on the gas, nothing happens. IMHO, this car was a PIG.

For a drive to LA, I'd take the 996 over my car. but I'd just as soon take a Ford Excretion and have room for stuff.
About the only thing I would want from that car would be the A/C.

Let the flaming begin!

[Saffs]

No flaming, I don't think there's many fans of the 996 here, but I drove a 2002 996 a few months ago - a Carrera 2. I don't know about nothing happening when hitting the gas, doesn't the C2 do like 0 - 60 in 5.6 sec or something? Felt quick to me, and handled amazingly well. Not my cup of tea as I find it bland looking and quite unremarkable, but it drove well, I felt....

[JDaniel]

I drove one around for a day (Back in 2000). I thought it felt quick (in a straight line), but completely isolated me from the car. There was no motor whine, no steering feedback, no "riding on rails". The interior felt cheap and flimsy. If I hadn't know it was a Porsche I might not have been too impressed.

My '87 may be slower, but it's a much more visceral ride!

[Wayne 962]

How about the Boxster then, compared to the 996?

-Wayne

[Saffs]

Wayne,
I've driven a Boxster S quite a bit. It really was quite stunning. Very quick, handled very crisply and quite superbly. Of course, the Boxster, like the 996, was well "insulated" and felt like all modern cars do: disconnected from outside reality. That's the way car design has gone, there's nothing we can do about that except start to demand that we want general car design to be more primitive, like it used to, in all cases. I also feel that the anti Boxster/996 sentiment is was probably said by 356 owners at the site of a 911 back in the day. People say they [Boxster and 996] look the same from the front, like a 911 and 912 didn't. In twenty years time, some owners of "highly original" Boxsters will be complaing about the latest electric Porsche mini van here! Some people just don't like change....
Anyhow, I prefer the older cars too, it must be said, but I don't have a hard time accepting the 996, times are just different....

[cegerer]

Thanks Thom. You've confirmed what I suspected from reading many test reports, etc. Now I won't need to waste my time driving one myself. -- Curt

[Moses]

These were my impressions posted a while back. Pretty much the same as Thoms:

Ran a 996 pretty hard today...

[JDaniel]

I've driven an '01 Boxster S on many occaisions (my Father owns one), and I'd say it is pretty similar to the 996 (interior, detachment factor, etc...). I like the motor sound at high revs, but that's the only time I hear it.
His car has the partial leather, and I must admit that the plastic stuff really looks cheap. I can only imagine how bad the original plastic parts must have been.
I HATE the digital speedo and the "analog" isn't much better. I can never seem to get a good view of my speed without having to move my head or my hand.
The car feels well balanced, and a bit quicker than my '87, but at the end of the day I'm really glad to climb into my car to drive home. The only truly positive feature of the Boxster (vs. my car) is the convertable top!!! Damn I knewI should have held out for a Cab.

[9XI]

What would it take to make a 996 or Boxster visceral? What if you started making it more like a race car?

Stiff suspension.
No power steering.
Take out the sound deadening.
Sport exhaust.
Performance chip.
Strip off unnecessarily stupid weight -- googas and the like.

Would it be pleasing to us?

Compare -- didn't they do this with the 964? They made a Carrera Cup car and and RS America. Were they more acceptable than the standard models at the time?

The reason I ask is because we should all admit that there have been certain technological advances in the last 20-30 years. Brakes, computerized injection, lighter stronger materials. Aren't some of these advances buried under a load of crap in the 996? Wouldn't it be possible just to strip away the fluff?

[Randy W]

I've had a Boxster S for two years, owned an SC for two years, and my current '72S for five years. I've also recently driven a 996, 993, and 964. My personal opinion is that the 911 has become less sensitive to throttle and steering input over the years and more isolated feeling as comfort has been added. A Boxster actually feels more agile than a 996 to me.

I'm afraid that even if you stiffen, lighten, and hop-up a 996, that "numb" steering is not going to go away all together. This is the biggest change, besides reduced quality of materials, between the 993 and the 996 that I perceive.

[Sean Hamilton]

The 996 is a sanitised vacuum devoid of character a the Porsche ambience. Actually I'd prefer the Maxima.
As for the (lights) shape....... who're they kiddin' It's not "Porsche" IMHO.
The 993....... The marque finale?

[Jack Olsen]

I was a passenger in Todd Serota's 996 at Thunderhill this weekend, and I had some of the same impressions. With a race suspension and race tires, it got around very well, and felt much more sure-footed than my car does at similar speeds. But it's also very quiet, and I didn't get the same feeling of being connected to the road as I get in my early car.

But my car has solid engine mounts, and the cushions get pulled out of the bottoms of my race seats for track driving, so there's no deadening of the road feel whatsoever. You're essentially sitting on the floor.

If you took a 996 a little further than Todd has, you'd pull a lot of sound deadening, and conceivably also remove some of the muffler chain (does anyone run megaphones on these cars? Would it even help?). But the engine itself is different. First off, there's no fan. Second, an air-cooled powerplant needs to have as little mass as possible between the combustion/friction (the source of the 'music') and the cooling air outside (where our ears are). With water cooling, you can isolate those things more, since you've got a much more effective cooling mechanism in place, and I imagine the water itself even does some vibration dampening.

For the record, the modified 996 went around the track about three seconds faster than my car did. The fault isn't with my car, though. It's with the owner/operator.

I can't speak to the steering, since I was just clutching the passenger door handle, but I'd guess Randy is right. Power steering is always going to be power steering.

[pbs911]

When looking to "upgrade" my SC, I went down and looked at the 996 upon the wife's insistence and they are actually less expensive the the 993 in my local. I went so far as looking a 2001 over and sitting in one. These cars look very DIY unfriendly. Moreover, just sitting in one was enough for me to forget the 996 as the model for me. Great car, but not for me. Maybe when my knees are riddled with arthritis and my bladder is weak I'll change my mind.

[930fan]

I think which 996 you drive plays a big part in forming an opinion on how it compares to an earlier car. I drove a 2001 996 C4 tiptronic at a track event last year. It was a fully optioned dealer demo with a tan leather everything (dash tops, vents!) with the nav system plus telephone and carbon panels and the last thing the interior looked like was cheap. The sports seats were super comfortable and supportive and the driving position was perfect with non of the offset pedal nonsense of the aircooled cars. Overall, it felt like a real quality item and was solid and rattle free even after thousands of track miles as a demo.

In terms of driving experience, it was a mixed experience. The power was good despite the auto and 4wd, the brakes were ok (fluid had boiled) but the handling was fantastic. Totally predictable and dependable and understeer was a problem only for the ham fisted. I tried the PSM too and found it a hindrance on the track but would love to have it on a dark and rainy day. A major dissapointment was the lack of engine and exhaust noise (though it was better near the redline) and the tiptronic. You can't change gear from the console anymore (unlike the earlier ones) and the s/wheel buttons are useless. Downshifts are too rough (if only it could blip the throttle like the Ferrari F1 transmission) and you can't go into 1st for a hairpin unless you are doing like 5mph. Overall, would I take it over my modded 930? Probably not

A few months ago, I got an extended ride in a 996 GT3 with a clubsport package. OMIGOD! It is the most outstanding car I have ever been in (and believe me I've been in a lot of Ferraris and Porsches). When the engine started I thought it was broken because it sounded like ball bearings in a giant tin can but it was normal apparently. We then went for a ride on some bumpy roads and the car was magnificent. The suspension was compliant enough to soak up bumps without being deflected yet seemed totally roll free and it never grounded even over the worst dips and crests. As for the sound, I don't really know how to describe the noise a 3.6litre 24 valve flat 6 makes at 7700 rpm but it was beautiful. Plus, it still has a stereo, air con, air bags, 360bhp and does 188mph. Would I swap my 930 for that? Any day. I just can't imagine how good the GT2 would be though I doubt it would sound as good.

My point is most people have tried just the basic 996 and are dissapointed by the isolation but Porsche and the aftermarket offer plenty of mods to make the 996 harder edged and the 2002 ones can be specced to near GT3 level from the factory. As for character, any rear engined sports car is going to be characterful and just because it has water isn't a bad thing. People jaust have to have open minds. For me, the 911 essence of build integrity (the GT3 had 15000+ miles of track day use and was tight as a drum), lively handling, race pedigree and lack of bulk (compared to contemporary 300bhp sports cars) are alive and kicking in a 996.

Long live the 911.

[Saffs]

Originally posted by 9XI


Compare -- didn't they do this with the 964? They made a Carrera Cup car and and RS America. Were they more acceptable than the standard models at the time?

The 964 RS and RSL is the one there, the RS America is a sanitized US version of the RS and not the same car, really. The 964 RS is great and is up there as one of the best "road going" 911s IMHO....

[BlkBird]

...and why has no one mentioned the 996 cup holders?

Chatting with a guy in a 996 the other day. Jokingly referred to my air cooled motor with snobbery over his lowly water cooled engine.

His reply was that his car has cup holders.

True. And I have a jet engine in the back that kicks in with afterburners. But those cup holders do sound interesting...

[jabb]

Thom:

I think you sumed it up pretty well.... Have a friend with a 996
First car was a boxster than he upgraded to the 996.....

Took him for a ride in my 914/6 3.0 with webers......
He Just does not get it.....

Just a thought back in 84 when my Carrera was new I am sure they were saying the same thing about that car.... as times
change and technologhy improves the 996 will be sought after in 15 or 20 years ......... ??

Oh well drive on............

[addictionMS]

yeh, yeh... I agree... and who needs painless dentistry anyway...

most of the top race cars today have power steering, power brakes, and the most advanced systems possible. If your goal is to have a harsh and stiff ride like a vintage race car and have to work up a sweat every time you drive it, then the 996 is a bad choice.

Before you all jump on me, you can't say I don't get it. I have a 1968 chassis race car 3.2 & 915 and run in the PRC Toyo Challenge, I have a 1988 Carrera lowered and stiffer, and a 2000 996 also lowered. they are all different, no one is better than the other, they are just different. I don't want my 996 to ride like my 1988, if it did, why own one? and I don't want either of my street cars to ride like my race car, that would be too brutal on the morning cup of coffee.

So before you say it is no good, you have to find out what it is for...there are some pretty trick 996s out there that have everything you are looking for. If the older cars were so much better why are they not winning in the Rolex series? and else where...not better just different.

By the way, from what I can see there a lots of SC and Carrera owners who just don't get it as well...but we never have issue with that do we....

Flame on...


Jim

[mwbaum]

Agree about the 996 being sterile...my dream car someday will be a 96/97 993 C4S. I would think that a GT2 would be pretty fun though!

[emcon5]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
(does anyone run megaphones on these cars? Would it even help?).

A 996 GT3RS sounds incredible. This is one of The Racer's Group cars from the Sears Point* ALMS race, showing the headers and megaphone.



Tom
*I refuse to call it anything but Sears Point, and if Infenion doesn't like it, they can bite me.