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-   -   A sort of barn find (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/750371-sort-barn-find.html)

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 02:28 AM

Work on the SC has taken up some time.
But now back to the seemingly endless journey or getting new steel into the car.

In anticipation of the inner sill and outer floor pan being welded in, I started to modify the 964 outer sill that was kindly given to me by a fellow resto nutter.

These are original Porsche parts, which is nice. I won't be doing Barry's level of retro detail, just getting them smooth where the 964 trim mounts.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459246804.jpg

Pretty simple. Make a template to fit over the indents.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459246839.jpg

Cut out the existing indent. And weld. This is far simpler than making surgical relief cuts with a dremmel and flattening out the indents.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459246872.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459246935.jpg

Then check for pinholes and grind flat, with etch primer on the inside.
The whole inside will be stripped back to bare steel and etch primed (i do this with all new panels just to be sure they are properly protected)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247117.jpg

And the postman brought a package, from a Pelicaner in California.
Can't wait to get these on the car. A nice piece of jewellery.....with our exchange rate and shipping costs they cost about the same as jewellery!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247100.jpg

Now onto the inner sill.
Drilled and stripped before etch primer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247234.jpg

And the inners of the sill have been cleaned, etched and epoxy primered. I hope they last another 50 years +

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247255.jpg

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 02:29 AM

Now for the fitting and aligning....the longest part of steel work (for me anyway).

Can never have enough clamps.

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 02:35 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247396.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247421.jpg

The front and rear patches I made to repair the rot in the ends of the sill now need to line up with the sill. Hmmm. Some persuading required.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247476.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247508.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247531.jpg

And then turn up the little MIG to max and start plug welding.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247565.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247584.jpg

And it's in.
2.5 years later.
Now to clean up the welds in prep for the outer sill, and some seam sealer on the outer floor pan patch.

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 02:43 AM

Nice and smooth.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247766.jpg

Along the top edge, I have alternated, only welding every second plug. The idea is that I'll drill through and weld in the outer sill from the inside. Reason being that the outer sill has a c-section at the top which mates into the vertical and horizontal edge of the door lip, and getting a welding torch in there is tricky.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247874.jpg

The strip the underside of the floorpan patch to bare steel and etch prime. The inside was done before I welded it in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247924.jpg

A few gaps to fill but it's strong and reasonably straight (amateur about has its downside)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459247977.jpg

New shiny steel is a lovely thing.

Then seam seal along the welds on the underside and inside the cabin.
Once i have seam welded the rest of the floorpan, it'll get the same treatment.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459248043.jpg

Only a few more patches to go.....(31 at last count!)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459248073.jpg

When I'm done with the LHD sill, it will have taken 9 individual patches. Which works out to about one every 3 weeks!

As they say: "we're not where we want to be but we're a long way from where we were!"

And some inspiration:
One of the 68 T/R Monte Carlo cars.... flares on a SWB body.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459248193.jpg

Rich Lambert 03-29-2016 07:00 AM

Just found this thread...you rust repair guys are a rare breed.

Mony 03-29-2016 08:55 AM

Matthew! Its been 3 years now, hows the metal porker looking?

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Lambert (Post 9057679)
Just found this thread...you rust repair guys are a rare breed.

Nice garage. With those cars (two of them anyway) you'll know the trickery of rust very well! Rare breed = mad breed....most of the time.
Come in another few years and there might be a running car on the last page of page 40 something! Cheers.

Matthew Barnes 03-29-2016 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mony (Post 9057859)
Matthew! Its been 3 years now, hows the metal porker looking?

Three months short of 3 years. Every month is important!
There is now more metal than rust.
And a few kilograms of melted MIG wire.
The up side of taking so long is that the value of the thing has gone up 300%...with no cds's or cdo's involved!

I'll take a few wide shots that show off the whole thing, on the weekend.
Don't get too excited though, the big picture is still unimpressive.....even after 10 pages of forum posts.

I'll make a brave prediction: on its wheels and in colour* by Christmas.

Cheers.

*grey primer may well be the final colour.

Matthew Barnes 04-02-2016 08:35 AM

Here we go again.
Jack tube support.
I was hoping it would be easier 2nd time around, but I've forgotten all the measurements.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614420.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614446.jpg

Check for fit and alignment

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614471.jpg

Ready to be welded in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614490.jpg

And welded in. Amazing how you can weld perfectly and then when things get just a little tricky, the welder starts playing up. Inconsistent wire speed feed....urgh.
Strip everything, clean out the tip, clean with compressed air and reassemble.

Not the cleanest welds, but strong.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614593.jpg

Inner sill stripped bare, masked where the outer sill will be welded in, and then primed with etch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614530.jpg

TOP TIP:if you are ever inspecting a pre73 car and want to get a sense of what the sills look like inside, behind solid looking paint, shoot some compressed air into the jacking tube. Rusty flakes will come flying out and give you a good sense of how much corrosion there might be.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614734.jpg

Primed and ready for the outer sill....and the fun of aligning all the door gaps. This is where short cuts can come back to haunt you. Hopefully it's easier 2nd time around.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459614885.jpg

Matthew Barnes 04-04-2016 09:33 AM

A while back when the MIG was down, I made a whole bunch of patches.
This is to replace the rotten (and badly repaired) lhd 1/4 window.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459790875.jpg

Some tack welds to hold the shape.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459790813.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459790921.jpg

As I've said before, you can never have enough clamps...in as many shapes and sizes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459790960.jpg

And then very very slowly tack weld in place.
Taken me a while to learn that with butt welding panels, you can't ever go too slowly.
Tap, tap, tapping with a hammer as you go, to make sure everything stays lined-up

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459790984.jpg

A piece of flattened copper pipe clamped against the back of the weld is a great help.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791077.jpg

Those welds took an hour.... but the upside is that there is barely any warping, even along the edges of the butt join.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791140.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791213.jpg

Matthew Barnes 04-04-2016 09:41 AM

The crease lines look okay.
A bit of filler....I mean lead....and it'll be nice and smooth.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791270.jpg

The rather lovely transition from the curve behind the door look plate to the hard crease that runs along under the 1/4 window is a bugger.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791330.jpg

And after another few hours filling in the weld....and hunting down pinholes, it looks half decent.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791422.jpg

The flange on the bottom edge of the 1/4 will need a trim.
But it's strong and pretty smooth.
Critically, the limits of my shaping and welding are below the height of the surrounding steel, so a thin skim of filler....I mean lead....will be sort that out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791483.jpg

Clean with a wire brush, inside and out, and a coat of etch primer to keep it safe and clean until it's time for filler and primer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459791623.jpg

Another job ticked off the list.

Matthew Barnes 04-04-2016 09:56 AM

Some gratuatous shots of the shell.
Been a while since I had a good look at the show thing, as opposed to some dimly lit rotten corner.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792024.jpg

This side has been all done.
And luckily the butcher who cut out the lhd flare didn't get to this side.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792050.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792103.jpg

If both 'flares' where gone then I would do T/R rear flares. But the swb quarters are so delicate it seems a crime to consider flaring them, even just a little to take a 7" wheel.
Will have to make a plan to get some 7Rs.....what's the going price for a wife and children?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792124.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792241.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792258.jpg

The colour scheme has evolved through the build.
I've always been a fan of Ivory white but there is something in here I really like:
the grey primer (a touch lighter when sanded and clean), classic satin black, red oxide primer and gold. Not sure where the gold came from but it seems to work together. Getting the ratios right will be the hard bit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792292.jpg

The tail light surrounds will go body colour.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792439.jpg

Re the 7R wheels, I traded for three of these Aluminium 15 x 7 replicas a while back. They're not bad - 80s Japanese replicas I think.

The plan might be to get them welded with the 7R offset.

5.5 x 15s on the front and 7Rs on the back......might be a very cunning plan.

Matthew Barnes 04-04-2016 09:58 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792643.jpg

Can't find any markings other than this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1459792676.jpg

Matthew Barnes 05-01-2016 08:21 AM

The LHD door is not in good shape.
Pretty much the same as the RHD one I have already done.
To be honest, unless it was stripped to bare metal there would have been no way to tell. The secrets these old cars keep....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119053.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119160.jpg

Same old trick as the rest of the car: weld a piece over the rotten section, cover with fibreglass and filler, and wait 20 years until some plonker finds it. In my defence, I was expecting the worst. As you grind away you get that distinctive fibreglass smell, and you know you're in for proper trouble.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119193.jpg

Saw a car the other day that a chap had bought for a lot of money, well over market value. A '68. As he pulled into the parking, from 10 - 15 feet away, myself and the old grey-beard collector next to me could see the rust bulging out the bottom of the doors. Not showing at the surface but there for certain. We didn't have the heart to tell the excited new owner. "Had a recent full respray" he proudly announced. We knew exactly why.

Anyway. Back to my own odyssey.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119464.jpg

The benefit of the previous amateur leaving the original steel and pinch seam behind means the profile of the door is still honest. So to aid in making sure the profile stays true when I repair the outer skin, I made a template out of 5mm steel. Will also help form the flange to pinch over the inner frame....I hope. I did the RHD door pinch seam by hand and it was a bugger.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119551.jpg

After that diversion, back to the LHD sill.

Matthew Barnes 05-01-2016 08:31 AM

Now to finish the lower wheelhouse corner.
The heater tube is rotten, so that needs to be repaired before I can patch the outer frame.

Took me a while to figure this trick out...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119811.jpg

Weld a handle onto the piece you're trying to weld, when no clamp is up to the job.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119848.jpg

Pretty straight forward

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462119985.jpg

Luckily I didn't have to cut too high to find solid steel. Compared to most other swb resto's I got off lightly.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462120017.jpg

I really need to get a shrinker / stretcher so I can stop cutting relief cuts and start doing it properly!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462120076.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462120125.jpg

Solid. One more job off the list.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462120208.jpg

Hello there....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462120258.jpg

Matthew Barnes 05-01-2016 09:38 AM

Decided to tackle the front slam panel and suspension pan.
First step: weld two braces into the lower pan.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123476.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123536.jpg

Then strip and etch prime.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123559.jpg

And then the front slam panel.
There is no evidence of impact in the front so I'm pretty confident I can get it straight and aligned.
Based off a print out of a chassis drawing, I created a simple jig to give me two datum points:
- the line of the seal channel at the top of the slam panel,
- and the most forward point of the panel.
Measurements are from the front suspension bar brace holes, the same hole the octisserie mounts into.

So that gives me a position forward and backwards.
Spirit level gives me left and right.
Measurement from the corner of the trunk to the lip of the channel gives me a second reference point.
And then it's the good old fashioned eye and gut feel!
The hood lines up nicely, which is a small confidence booster.
Not forgetting the lower suspension pan as a guide.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123739.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123949.jpg

Then fit and fettle and fit and more fettling.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462123993.jpg

And in she goes.
Slowly does it, lots of measuring in-between.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124033.jpg

Not finished, but it all lines up.
Will come back and finish up in the hard-to-reach places once I have the beetle on it's back.
Lower seal channel runs snug with the bumper.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124058.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124147.jpg

Not as difficult as I thought it would be.

Matthew Barnes 05-01-2016 09:41 AM

Here are some more gratuitous shots. Might as well considering the fenders are on.
The edges of the bonnet and the fenders will need work to get the gaps right.
And who knows what the final paint scheme will be.
Also trying to decide between swb headlights or lwb....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124369.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124438.jpg

And some impromtu spray-can photoshop

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124382.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462124413.jpg

Willem Fick 05-02-2016 10:34 AM

Glad you got that slam tray sorted Matthew! Must still come collect mine from you and take in some inspiration at the same time!

ducatisti 05-05-2016 06:39 AM

Looking good Barnes. Lots of progress since my visit.

Matthew Barnes 05-23-2016 04:35 AM

" is that a hardtop sitting on the targa? would love to see some shots of the bottom of that."

Hey there, it was a an original steel hood.
The targa was too far gone to justify a repair (three years ago!)


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