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-   -   A sort of barn find (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/750371-sort-barn-find.html)

Willem Fick 07-07-2016 11:32 AM

If you want I can bring my MIG around? Going home on Sun and can easily toss it into my car. You have a gas bottle already which is the heavy lifting part!

Matthew Barnes 07-19-2016 05:44 AM

Two new (and long overdue) additions to the amateur's workshop:
-a functioning shrinker/stretcher
-a grown-man's MIG

The MIG is a huge improvement in general weld quality and ease of use.
The shrinker means no more pie cuts and better fitting patches!

Neither of these additions however can make up for some good old fashioned stupidity (like warping the one door skin :mad:)

The stretcher means simple improvements like curving the stepped patch on the bottom of the door.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935716.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935499.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935592.jpg

Not an expensive piece of kit, but it works wonders.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935626.jpg

The rest of the door reconstruction looks like this:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935663.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935685.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935753.jpg

And the door skin patch...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935795.jpg

It all lined up pretty well.
And then I went and warped the b@#$%^&&d door skim with my brand new welder...:mad:

Matthew Barnes 07-19-2016 05:49 AM

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935925.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935943.jpg

A little bit of working still required...but all the various but come together pretty well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468935968.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468936020.jpg

The irony is that i have really taken my time, with tack welds and fitting and checking and rechecking. So to do something as stupid as put too much heat into the butt-weld on the door skin patch and warp the skin is inexcusable. We live and learn.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468936110.jpg

Just one inch of offending weld.....get out the dolly and the hammer!!!!

Willem Fick 07-19-2016 05:51 AM

Didn't know Adendorff stocked shrinkers?! Damn you, reading this thread has just cost me money!

Which MIG did you end up getting?

Matthew Barnes 07-19-2016 07:19 AM

And here is the reverse side of the door skin patch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468941280.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468941309.jpg

Everything fits together really nicely. Once I have finished the butt welds I'll knock this flange over and crimp it with a set of customised bolt cutters.

I made a lower wheel well patch a while back.
I binned that and started again, this time with the shrinker / stretcher on hand.
this is the result.
Much better. And no pie cuts!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468941410.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1468941463.jpg

A bead roller with a set of decent dies, along with a shrinker / stretcher make a MASSIVE difference to any diy repair on these old rusty flat beetles. If you're considering doing some work then these two tools should be on your essentials list.

Matthew Barnes 07-19-2016 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem Fick (Post 9204794)
Didn't know Adendorff stocked shrinkers?! Damn you, reading this thread has just cost me money!

Which MIG did you end up getting?

Neither did I!
Yeah, they have a fairly decent machine for R2000 odd. Pretty much the same as the Harbour Freight or Eastwood machine. Can handle up to 1mm.

They also stock two different models of bead roller....I might have to acquire one!

I ended up going for the Tradeweld 200Amp machine. From e-weld (thanks for the tip).
Wire feed motor and fittings are quality. Welds nice and clean at 65 amps with great penetration.

Willem Fick 07-19-2016 08:24 AM

Will definitely put that onto my wishlist! I am very happy with my Tradeweld too, though I suspect yours is the more "upmarket" one with digital readouts. Took a while to get the hang of it, but really got it going now. Not too happy with the quality of the Afrox wire as I mentioned, but getting along despite it!

Matthew Barnes 07-27-2016 05:19 AM

Some more progress.
After inspecting my attempt at fabricating the tricky slam panel corners, I bit the bullet and ordered a pair from Spotwagen Eckert. Nice pieces and reasonably priced.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625335.jpg

The next trick was to repair the sections left over from the major surgery of replacing the front slam panel and refabricating the inner fender edges where they meet the slam panel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625416.jpg

The shrinker / stretcher really is a huge help - makes these repairs simple.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625451.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625478.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625505.jpg

I'm missing the last fender mounting hole, but that'll be okay. I've got FBG fenders so I'll make a plan.

All finished and etch-primed

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625548.jpg

Both sides.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625583.jpg

Cross another job off the list!

Matthew Barnes 07-27-2016 05:25 AM

Next: the remains of the 912 engine mounts which were badly patched.

The profile is pretty simple.
The new welder is a huge improvement in consistency and penetration.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625677.jpg

My welding is slowly improving.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625713.jpg

Let's hope the rear part of the profile matches the engine mounts when it comes time to weld them in!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625762.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625812.jpg

And the other side.
The insides of the box section were surprisingly clear of rust - just lots of accumulated blast aggregate. It really does get in everywhere.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625853.jpg

More crap to add to the scrap collection.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469625880.jpg

Matthew Barnes 07-27-2016 05:35 AM

A few other 'quick' repairs.
The front windscreen corner.
Luckily this rust hadn't migrated into the dash corners.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626033.jpg

Again, not sure how you would do this repair without a shrinker / stretcher.

Rain channel repairs:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626088.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626123.jpg

Encouraging that the repair is not easy to spot!
Some cleaning up necessary with the Dremmel and the Grinding wheel, but looking good.

And another quick patch.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626177.jpg

Finally, here is a tool I made to try and help planish out some the warpage in the door.
The tool didn't really work but the welding is impressive!
Compared to welding 1mm steel, welding heavier stuff is a walk in the park!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626263.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469626288.jpg

So we're now in the home straight.

Jobs left to do:
- replace fender support panel
- weld in cut off 'flare' (might leave this to a TIG pro)
- weld in engine mounts
- seam weld rhd floor pan
- clean up parcel shelf repairs

Then it's onto sanding and primer and paint - for the interior and underside anyway.
The fitting and filling of the FBG panels will take a while.
They are not great panels, with various edges not being uniform etc.

After spending a few years working on yachts where sanding acres of surface was a full time job, I can't drum up much enthusiasm for this next stage. I may outsource it.

Anyway, I jokingly suggested that all the steel work would be done by the end of July (making it 3 years since I bought the car) and I may just make that deadline.

Matthew Barnes 07-28-2016 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willem Fick (Post 9205062)
Will definitely put that onto my wishlist! I am very happy with my Tradeweld too, though I suspect yours is the more "upmarket" one with digital readouts. Took a while to get the hang of it, but really got it going now. Not too happy with the quality of the Afrox wire as I mentioned, but getting along despite it!

I wish!
Pretty simple machine.
With a fair bit of trial and error to get it dialled it, it welds really nicely.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1469703367.jpg

Willem Fick 07-28-2016 04:44 AM

Exactly the same as mine! I found dialing it in a real PITA as I at first tried to be all scientific, using an app on my phone. Cost me hours of bad welds until I decided to just fiddle with the knobs and experiment. Working much better now. As soon as the warrant runs out I'll be fitting a voltmeter to it though to make my settings a bit more predictable.

Matthew Barnes 07-29-2016 05:17 AM

The settings I am using as follows:
0.8 - 1mm mild steel.
Butt welding.

0.8 wire
3.5 Wirespeed
3.5 Voltage
4 Inductance (3rd button)

Playing around in the 3 - 4 range with wire speed gets in the groove.
Doesn't like to weld uphill at these settings (understandable)

I reckon with 0.6 wire those settings can down a bit: less amps and less material = a flatter, cleaner weld. Will try this weekend and get back to you.

Willem Fick 07-29-2016 06:03 AM

Roughly where I am with my settings too, though I find that the Afrox 0.8 really doesn't feed as nicely as it could, and am very happy to have a roll of decent quality 0.6 ready and waiting. Was surprised by the effect the inductance knob has!

Matthew Barnes 08-01-2016 03:33 AM

Played around with .6 wire this weekend.
After much swearing and cursing, it seems that 0.6 wire needs more wire feed for a given voltage setting....more than the equivalent .8 wire would need.

Still haven't managed to successfully weld at lower than 50 amps with 0.6 wire.
But I reckon this is more of a distance to tip / stick out issue than amps or voltage.

Starting the weld vs when running a bead is the issue. The start - if spotting vs laying a bead - is tricky but once you get going the bead cleans up quite a bit.

Your idea of hooking up a voltmeter is a great one, to get accurate, replicable settings.

Will report back when I have a tested hypothesis!

M

Willem Fick 08-01-2016 04:04 AM

I found the 0.6 very easy to work with, even at low currents, though admittedly I wasn't doing spot welds with it.

My issues with the 0.8 may well be down to the poor quality of the Afrox wire. The 0.6 (I guess Chinese) stuff was properly wound on the spool in layers, whereas the Afrox wire looks like it was wound by hand, and just won't give a smooth feed.

I am going to do a bit of thin metal work this coming weekend, and will give oth the 0.6 and 0.8 a go. Will share my results.

Incidentally, I am not sure if you noticed the many fans your work suddenly got on the Whatsapp group? Had a real chuckle as a single photo of the bottom of your b-pillar was posted and I recognised your car from just that - I guess that makes me a "super" fan?

Matthew Barnes 08-06-2016 09:12 AM

Willem, I experimented with 0.6 wire last weekend.
Laid perfect, clean beads on the bench with a piece of scrap.
The moment I tried to weld on the chassis: bloody mess.
Must have been something to do with the earth.
After spending a few hours exercising my finest sailor vocabulary, I chucked it in and switched back to 0.8.
Beautiful.
0.8 it is.

Only a few items left on the list.
The finish line (as far as the body goes) is in sight.

Did some clearing up today.
I've been keeping all the rotten bits i cut out and replace.
I've had them stashed away under the bench.
I pulled them out and tossed them all in a big rubber bin.
Excluding the front slam panel and suspension pan, this is the result....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502325.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502347.jpg

Hard to believe so much steel can come out of such a small car.
The plan is to lay it all out on the garage floor to get a real perspective of 2 and a bit year's worth of rustoration.

Going through the car checking sections I have previously repaired to ensure the welds are good. Inevitable little holes. Some can be filled with a piece of copper on the back and a few welds. Others, not so much.

Saps the energy being so close, but after learning the hard way over 2 years I can now patch pretty quickly. Good patch and solid welds. They say the difference between a great welder and a poor one is how quickly you get to the grinder. Truth in there.

This was tiny little hole. The only solution was to cut it out.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502587.jpg

The floorpan from the wrecked Targa has been a godsend.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502658.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502708.jpg

And this one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502840.jpg

The driver's side floor pan around it should really be replaced.
The steel has taken a hammering with rust. It stood up to sand-blasting, but it looks knackered. Considering no-one makes a RHD pedal area I'll have to make it myself. Will leave that job for much later...when it's been on it's wheels making noise for a few years.

All that was left of the floorpan seam welding was one side.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470502875.jpg

Have developed a bit of strategy for this.
Even when sand-blasted, the factory bitumen sealer remains between the seams of the sills, tunnel and floorpan. So the moment you hit it with a bead the sealer boils and releases gas that spoils the weld - pretty much the same result as welding without the gas turned on.

So I clean up the edges as best I can with a 3M wheel, wire brush and those little sanding disks on the end of a Dremmel.
Then i weld a spot every cm or so along the length of where I can to run a bead.
These sacrificial welds heat up the sealer in the seam and it boils off.
The welds are rubbish so I grind them down with a flap disk.
Then I go back and lay a proper bead.
This time the weld is pretty solid.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470503501.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1470503535.jpg

Willem Fick 08-16-2016 12:12 AM

Matthew, I tried the 3.5, 3.5, 4 settings and they worked a charm! For 1.6mm metal I upped the voltage to 4, and for 0.6 wire I kept the voltage at 3.5, but boosted the wire feed speed to 4. Managed to weld 1mm sheet perfectly at this setting. Playing around with inductance a bit too after I came across this info:

"Too little inductance results in excessive spatter. If too much inductance is used, the current will not rise fast enough and the molten tip of the electrode is not heated sufficiently causing the electrode to stub into the base metal."

Willem Fick 08-16-2016 12:13 AM

Matthew, I tried the 3.5, 3.5, 4 settings and they worked a charm! For 1.6mm metal I upped the voltage to 4, and for 0.6 wire I kept the voltage at 3.5, but boosted the wire feed speed to 4. Managed to weld 1mm sheet perfectly at this setting. Playing around with inductance a bit too after I came across this:

"Too little inductance results in excessive spatter. If too much inductance is used, the current will not rise fast enough and the molten tip of the electrode is not heated sufficiently causing the electrode to stub into the base metal."

Matthew Barnes 08-28-2016 11:33 PM

I suspect my issue with .6 wire is on the user end of the equation.
Increasing the wire speed makes sense.

There was a very simple chart/procedure detailed on weldingtipsandtricks.com that helped check wiretapped. But for the life of me I can't find it now.

Anyway, the .8 wire is welding beautifully with great penetration and a reasonably flat bead. I'm almost done with the MIG jobs. My last big job is welding on the the butchered rear quarter flare.....a job for a TIG I suspect.


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