"Back-grading" from Pertronix to to Points.

[rennch]

Well, I will definitely swap the points for the Pertronix, as recommended by my guy. (Who, by the way, has a stellar reputation as one of the "guru's" in the SoCal area. )

It just seems like I've got to grab a feeler gauge, and I should be all set to do the swap.

[304065]

Michael,

You didn't answer about the distributor drive gear. If you or a prior owner didn't change the drive gear, then the distributor will spin backwards, and instead of advancing when the flyweights move out as speed rises, it will retard. Obviously this is not good.

[rennch]

I can't remember off the top of my head. I want to say it's clockwise. I'll check when I get home.

[T77911S]

sorry, my wastegate for my 930 came in and i was messing with that.

if it is rotating backwords, i dont know what effect it would have on this system. it may work fine, but as mentioned above, you would not have any advance, but idle would be fine.
electrically it may or may not effect it. call pertronix.

if your timiing at idle is way off, which would look like it is firing between posts, that could also be something mechanical. is everything mounted properly? are the springs on the mechanical advance still good?

also check the grounds. i am guessing the pretronix gets its ground through the dist body. the plate that it mounts on needs to be grounded to the body.

were/are the vacuum pots still being used?

[rennch]

guys...quick question. I have a black and a red wire coming out of the pertronix. I'm about to do this swap. Looks like I connect the white wire to the points once I install them. Where do I connect the red wire coming out of the MSD?

[rennch]

Looks like I'm meant to connect to a switched positive. Anywhere in particular you guys like for that?

[T77911S]

the diagram in post 16 was better.

the red wire goes to switched power AND to the red wire to the pertronix. the white mad wire goes to the black pertronix wire.

someone asked about rotation direction, i wonder if that still matters with the pertronix.
you should call them and talk to them about it.

did you ever check timing at idle?

[rennch]

Once again...I am de-installing pertronix in favor of points, to test something.

However, here's my current problem. And I'd love to get someone on the phone that knows of these things.

My distributor is out, and I didn't think to mark TDC before I did that. I now have the upper left valve cover off, but I'm having a hard time distinguishing a "loose" valve from a tight valve. Can anyone help?

[James Brown]

to find tdc#1 take the #1 plug out and using a hose in the plug hole, turn till you hear/feel air coming out and stop turning when you get to TDC mark

[rennch]

Originally Posted by James Brown

to find tdc#1 take the #1 plug out and using a hose in the plug hole, turn till you hear/feel air coming out and stop turning when you get to TDC mark

I can't manually turn the motor at all, so I'm having to use the ignition in short bursts to rotate the engine.

I have the upper valve cover off at the moment.

Any other suggestions?

[James Brown]

you can still do it that way with short pops of the starter. to get right on, use 4th gear and move the car till the TDC lines up.

[rennch]

As long as my pulley notch is vertical, can't I rotate it til it's at TDC, install the distributor, and if it doesn't run, rotate it one more time? Is it 1 full rotation per 2 cylinders firing? OR am I off?

[fastfredracing]

Originally Posted by emptyo

Looks like I'm meant to connect to a switched positive. Anywhere in particular you guys like for that?

I like to take my switched positive right off the connector that went to the original CD unit. I always grab my 12v battery, off the large starter post. I do however, have one in the shop now that is taking 12 v battery off the little fuse panel in the back, ( not my work ). and it seems to work perfectly .

[James Brown]

dissy moves at 1/2 speed so 1 complete rotations for every 2 engine rotations. please do it the right way and don't confuse yourself (and me) by trying to re inventing the wheel. IT HAS to be at #1 TDC before preceding any further. whatever it takes to be 100% sure it is is what it takes.
I went with the starter connection for a positive direct connection to the battery

[rennch]

Am re-assembled with what I thought was TDC. Doesnt fire...then one huge giant "poof" of a backfire.

Giving up for the day

[T77911S]

its usually 180 out when you get the big bang. check firing order.

dissable the fuelpump and crank it while checking timing. from your original post where you said it was between posts onthe cap sounde like your timing is VERY advanced.

[jpnovak]

Michael,

Don't you have a 3.0 in the 69? I remember you swapped it from another car. however, that is not a 3.0 distributor in the picture. its too small diameter and would certainly not have the points plate in it as it used a variable reluctor wheel and coil wire. Even if you have a different distributor with a swapped crank gear the advance mechanism would rotate the wrong direction and give you a very strange timing curve. What is the part number on the distributor and what is the type number of your engine?

It is difficult to troubleshoot based on your descriptions. here is my method for aligning either a pertronix or Crane system. ( I personally prefer the Crane as I have seen too many burned out pertronix over the years where the car is left with the ignition on and the hall sensor overheats from too much current. I digress)

1. Put motor at #1 TDC. Use Crank pulley and loose valves on #1 to verify. The #1 valve will be loose (valve adjustment gap, slight tick) on TDC. It will be tight (overlap) when 180 deg out.

2. pull distributor and align the rotor to #1 tick mark on body. If a CCW distributor from a 3.0 The leading edge of the rotor would point to the tick mark.

3. Slide pickup onto the distributor shaft. The pickup is the magnetic sleeve on a pertronix or the shutter wheel on a Crane. It has some rotation on the shaft for phasing.

4. Turn on ignition and clip timing light (or use spare spark plug) to #1 cylinder to check for spark.

5. Hold rotor still and rotate shaft pickup until the engine fire. You are now phased correctly. Remember, the distributor shaft is locked to the crank via the crank gear. The distributor body slides independently and now the pickup can rotate on the shaft. You must have alignment and phasing between all three before anything will work properly.

6. Hold rotor and rotate back shaft pickup. fine tune to the point where the ignition will spark when you rotate the rotor against its mechanical advance.

7. The engine should now start (assuming everything else on the motor is working).

8. Use timing light to fine tune timing to spec.

If the system does spark but the timing is off you need to phase the ignition pickup./

[brads911sc]

what is your rationale for not running the correct distributor?

[rennch]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

what is your rationale for not running the correct distributor?

No rationale...it's what came on the motor I bought.

At the moment, I have points in, and am just trying to get the car to fire. I think I might have it 180 degrees out of phase though.

[brads911sc]

I see. Hopefully you can get it sorted...

If it were me Id try to source a used one and have Berry Hershon rebuild it and give it Mechanical Advance. This had the biggest impact on performance of anything I did...

Originally Posted by emptyo

No rationale...it's what came on the motor I bought.

At the moment, I have points in, and am just trying to get the car to fire. I think I might have it 180 degrees out of phase though.