Part 2 of 2 - Replacing Oil Seals, Gaskets, and Leaky Plumbing in ’85 3.2

[Discseven]

Part 2 of 2

After pressure cleaning, all protective covering is removed… a variety of engine maintenance is completed… exhaust is installed with new oxygen sensor…transaxle is serviced and matted to the engine… fuel and oil filters are changed… electrical terminals are cleaned… now the engine is positioned ready to have the chassis lowered onto it.

With chassis close to the engine, the engine’s position relative to chassis is fine tuned… then tilted to allow the shifter rod entry to the center tunnel… the engine’s then jacked up and pushed forward in the chassis and engine mounts are aligned… engine’s secured… and operating connections are made but for oil plumbing which is next on the replacement agenda.



Deterioration of the old oil plumbing lines is clearly visible after pressure cleaning. Here’s the old s-hose’s connection at the oil tank. (Engine draws oil from the tank via this hose.) The soft sections of the hard/soft combo lines are also in “cracked condition.”

The new s-hose installed.
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Next, the two hard/soft oil lines connected to the external thermo will be removed and replaced. The top line running into this thermo is the scavenge line. The lower line connects to the oil tank. Separating these lines from this thermo… it’s not going well. Penetrating oil… does nothing. Needless to say anti seize was not applied between these parts by the factory. I’m guessing the factory’s agenda in not applying anti seize is to ensure parts staying together. It’s working!

Expanding the nuts with a torch is tried next. No success.



The external thermo has been tortured to death --- a.k.a. broken. The priority now: preserve the fitting nuts on the forward (cooling) section of plumbing. To do this, the entire length of oil plumbing under the passenger’s side of the car is removed. First the bottom side valance on the chassis is removed. Then there are a few retaining brackets that secure the pipes to the chassis that need to be undone…and the oil plumbing comes off the chassis. The plan is to torch the fitting nuts… then dunk them and thermo in room temp motor oil. Compared to water dunking, oil is less likely to fuse threads.
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The tortured-to-death thermo. In this case, the hard/soft line to the oil tank took the thermo’s threads with it. Imagine, these parts have been companions for 33 years. (My ’85 3.2 is in an ’80 Targa.) The hard/soft scavenge line is cut off just after this photo is taken to get it out of the way. While I’m going to replace the thermo, I believe Pelican offers a fix for snapped off threads like this.

With the thermo in a vice, a nut has been torched and is now ready to dunk…



Dunking releases one nut. Then the other!

Salvaged threads and fitting surfaces are far from pristine but they’ll clean up nicely due to the thermo’s softer metal. These take little more than half an hour to recondition with a pick and wire wheel.
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An external thermo.

The hard/soft scavenge line connection to the thermo has already been made. Now the line between the thermo and oil tank is going in. Oil flows from the thermo through this line into the tank… travels up an internal line to the filter… filters… then drops down in the tank. The hard/soft combo not only provides flexibility aiding in the installation of these lines, it provides needed flexibility in the connective link between the chassis and engine --- the scavenge line in particular. (Also the s-hose.)



A section of the oil cooling lines that run under the passenger door’s threshold. Arrows point to where two of a few retaining brackets go. (When rattling occurs on the passenger’s side of the car, it’s likely that one or more of these brackets is either loose or gone. There’s a rubber insulator in these brackets that deteriorates over time. With the brackets off, it’s a good time to replace the rubber. Common rubber hose can be used but it should be “dish-washer rated” a.k.a. hot water hose.)

The completed external thermo assembly…with anti seize applied.
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One oil line connection has not yet been made in this photo. Can you spot it?



Answer: The hard/soft oil line that runs from the engine’s scavenge pipe (yellow plug) to the external thermo.

The final step is at hand --- testing the parts and installations for leaks. If there are any… I prefer to face them now as opposed to later.
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An occasional onlooker to this build, "Bosco," has proposed a wager against the engine starting on the first cranking… “Ok.” Now, the moment he’s nervously been anticipating is at hand. While feeding the oil tank, I’m running through all necessary connections in my mind. Yeah… almost forgot... the battery’s ground. This would’ve been both an expensive and unfortunate error as my mind is also running through the notion of a few days in Key West paid for by BoscoFunding.

Ignition on... after a fuel system has been opened, it takes roughly 10 seconds for the system to pressurize. The fading of the fuel pump’s buzzing signals pressure is building. Bosco’s busy sweating bullets. After 12 seconds, the fuel pump’s now making a barely audible hummmm suggesting full pressure… I turn the key over. As soon as the engine starts cranking, my wagering companion turns to stone, surly tormenting himself over the expense should things not go his way. Me… I’m seeking the nano-second that tells of cylinders firing…



Key West is a wonderful drive-to from Miami especially on a blue-sky, topless day. Route 905 between Card Sound (Croc Lake) at the north and US 1 at the south is usually deserted... a beautiful, haul-f**king-ass tree-lined stretch of pavement. In Key West, the Gardens or Marquesa are small, nicely secluded upscale hotels one block off Duval. Lush, intimate pool areas in either place. And while I love kids, there’re no screamers racing around at either of these tranquil enclaves. On the daily decompression menu: bobbing calmly about the pool with cool rum in hand, hot sun over head, and nicely curved felines wading gently nearby.



After the external thermo opens and the forward plumbing to the trombone fills with oil (carefully feeling the oil lines ahead of the thermo signals when it has opened) an additional 3 quarts are fed the tank. The car’s now raised on the lift and the engine’s left to purrr for a while to give any leaks adequate time to present themselves. Bosco… he’s consoled with my offer to head for martinis afterwards --- he doesn’t hesitate to say “Yesss!” First, a careful combing of the job site seeking the smallest drop of bad news… and none is found ~


BACK END NOTES

This “oil project” was part of a larger project that took 5 weeks to complete and $7,000. The entire project will be divided into subject category posts.

The other work that was done (and is or will be posted) includes:

• Cooling fan & housing replacement including fan polishing and rebalancing Fan & Housing In '85
• Driver’s door replacement including stripping my old door completely and building the replacement door shell with the stripped parts
• CV replacement '85 CV Replacement
• Transaxle external servicing
• Fuel injection repair (1 cylinder stopped working 1 week before dropping the engine --- nice timing on this one!)
• Paint & body (front hood, bumper, valance and replacement driver’s door are prepped, primed and painted)
• Powder coating the Targa bow
• Repairing the front condenser blower '85 Front Condensor Blower Fix


TOOLS USED (For Oil project)

Car lift, jack, motor cycle lift (to raise & lower engine), engine stand, range of box and open-ended wrenches, range of sockets wrenches including torques, flat and Phillip head screw drivers, pronged & grip plyers, scraper, grenade pins, small rubber hammer, cam sprocket retainer wrench, magnetic wand, metal collars (to seat main seals), metal hammer, acetylene torch, cam dial, 2 x 4, vice, 5 gallon bucket, parts washer, parts cleaning brushes (various), impact air gun, air gun, air compressor, 4 stands, pressure cleaner, hack saw, plugs & caps of various sizes, and swamp tray.

CONSUMABLES

Plastic gloves, rags, mineral spirits, spray brake cleaner, high pressure grease, acetylene torch gases, liquid gasket, penetrating oil, motor oil, water, plastic bags, tape, coffee, gas, water, replacement parts as will be noted, hand cleaner.

I’ve attempted to remember everything for the above but you can be sure I’m not perfect!

[Neilk]

Great post Karl. I am mounting a set of oil cooler lines on my car. Is there a third mounting bracket for the oil cooler lines under the rocker? Can you please add a picture of it if possible?

Thanks,
Neil

[Elombard]

FWIW its easier to cut the nuts off the oil lines from the T stat to the oil tank and engine sump. It saves the T stat and you can buy replacement nuts from pelican. Great work though. I have an oil leak (s) on my 84 and need to pull it down but I cant afford the 'while your in there' at the moment :-)

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Neilk

Great post Karl. I am mounting a set of oil cooler lines on my car. Is there a third mounting bracket for the oil cooler lines under the rocker? Can you please add a picture of it if possible?

Thanks,
Neil

Neil,

There is a third bracket under the rocker just behind the jack socket. And a few more under the front wheel well --- I did not photo those.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Elombard

FWIW its easier to cut the nuts off the oil lines from the T stat to the oil tank and engine sump. It saves the T stat and you can buy replacement nuts from pelican. Great work though. I have an oil leak (s) on my 84 and need to pull it down but I cant afford the 'while your in there' at the moment :-)

Thanks Elombard. I realized Pelican had a fix for the removed threads after replacing the thermo!

[Elombard]

There is actually two fixes,

1 replaces the threads on the T stat, however, I dont think it will work when the entire 'spigot' breaks off.

2 replaces the nuts on the lines. You can carefully cut the nuts with a dremel and spread them and get the lines off with out hurting the T stat. Then replace the nuts.

Not sure if that makes sense?

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Elombard

There is actually two fixes,

1 replaces the threads on the T stat, however, I dont think it will work when the entire 'spigot' breaks off.

2 replaces the nuts on the lines. You can carefully cut the nuts with a dremel and spread them and get the lines off with out hurting the T stat. Then replace the nuts.

Not sure if that makes sense?

I think the ends of the pipe are flared... if so... how would the new nuts go on?!?!

[Elombard]

Pelican Parts - Product Information: ERMP-0170000

I have not used one, but I think they have a special washer that threads on? I had the same question. Magic :-) That Chuck at Elephant racing is very clever.

[GH85Carrera]

It is indeed a lot of work and not cheap. I just did the same basic thing. It is great to have a dry engine.

[Discseven]

Glen... yeahhh... when friends tell you not to park in the driveway because of the mess the car leaves... it's time to fix it!

[GH85Carrera]

My final straw was a leak that left a trail of oil 10 inches long after the car had sat for a couple of weeks.

[Southpole]

I'm new to the Pelican Forum and think this is a terrific place! Great stuff!!!

I'm writing because I have 85 911 and also have never changed the oil seals... basically the things that you've done Discseven. I have three questions to ask you.

1. Is it possible to do this work in my own home garage as long as I can get the car high enough to remove the engine?

2. I have no experience as a mechanic other than changing oil, plugs, filters, etc. Is this work something that can be done by a near idiot who is willing to learn?

3. How long does this project take? (How long should I plan on the car being fixed in the garage with the engine out?)

Thank you.

[Discseven]

Hello Southpole,

Yup!!!...a great place with many wonderful members!

To your questions...

1. Sure you can do this provided you have enough space to work in and have the patience to learn as you go.

Look for quality reference concerning all the steps necessary for engine removal & installation, and dealing with each individual engine area --- I'm sure there are posts on Pelican that cover every area you'll be dealing with. I suggest you go through ALL the reference in advance to see if this is something you genuinely want to deal with.

Should you move forward, you should consider getting an engine stand. This makes working on the engine a comfortable and easy process. You'll also need more tools than you probably already have given what you've said. Take this into consideration when deciding about this being something to dive into.

2. Mechanically... I'm of the mind that we can do anything we set our desires to do provided we have the "tools." And by tools I don't necessarily mean engine servicing tools. Perhaps a better word is capabilities. Saying that you are "willing to learn" suggests you have the right perspective --- deciding if you have the "capabilities" is a personal call.

As I mentioned above... get good reference. If your existing mechanic is willing to help you, great! Post questions here. The information you need is available --- you just have to find it.

3. To do the oil related work noted in my post takes someone who knows the process roughly two and a half full days at a leisurly pace beginning with engine removal and ending with an installed working engine with no leaks. This is with all parts and tools on hand and no major delays. I did a variety of other things to the engine and the car --- did have some problems --- which spread my entire project out over some weeks.

Inevitably there are unforeseen problems that have to be dealt with that slows progress. Things break... won't come apart... don't have a tool... wrong parts are shipped... Anything can --- and does --- happen.

No offense but you as a newbie to this engine process... you'll be looking at reference and moving slowly so it could take you two weeks. Maybe one. Maybe three.

I recommend reading all your reference in advance (preferably over a few times so you know it well). This way you'll have some idea what to do when your actually working. You'll also be prepared with the tools and parts you'll need. Give yourself three weeks to have your 911 without engine and I think you should be good.

After having done this work... I think you'll feel very differently about driving your 911.

Best to you in this endeavor Southpole ~