Shifter bushing replacement problem

[Newbrunswicktod]

Hello Pelicans. I am encountering a problem with a shifter bushing replacement project. I just bought an 85 Carrera that came with a non factory short shift kit that I don't care for. I got a regular shifter to swap out the short shifter and thought that I would replace the ball bushing on the bottom of the shifter and the rod bushing while I'm at it. The ball bushing was a snap but I had quite time getting the rod bushing pressed into the adaptor. When finally got it in place and slid the adaptor over the rod, it seemed quite tight and it was a bit of a chore to get it back in place to where it bolts on to the tunnel. When I put everything together and tightened all the shifter base bolts to the tunnel, the shifter was really tight and would only allow 1st and 2nd gear. If I completely loosen the two bolts that tighten the adaptor, things free up and all gears will engage. It's like the adaptor is not completely parallel with the shift rod and binds up when tightened.

I am quite sure that I put everything back the way it came out but if there are any suggestions out there on where I may have erred, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks.

[JAR0023]

Photos would help. Know who made the short shifter you pulled out? IIRC the Weltmeister is longer below the pivot and includes a spacer to place under the shift tower to raise it. An assumption on my part, but if you have the spacer try removing it. That would lower the shift rod in the tunnel. -J

[Newbrunswicktod]

Not sure who made the short shifter but yes you call tell it longer below the pivot point and there was a spacer. I did not put the spacer back when I installed the regular shifter. Thanks for the suggestion.

[hansv123]

This is a long shot but here's a theory...there may have been adjustments made to the the shift coupler linkage (under cover plate between rear seats) to 'line up' the short shift kit w/spacer that you previously had in the car. You might want to re-tighten up the shifter, then go to the shift coupler and adjust it to see if you can get dial it in a little better. You may then need to make another adjustment or two back up front at the shifter before everything lines up allowing all gears to be selected cleanly. Note; before you make any adjustments to the shift coupler linkage be sure to make index marks so you can revert back to it's current position if needed.

[theiceman]

what are you driving first question ..
on my 915 i replaced the same bushing you mentioned and i had no real issues getting the donut back and and it did NOT bind .. so check this first .. make sure the donut is seated properly and is not putting undue pressure on the shift rod .. this as you know should be greased also ..

the bracket holding the donut has to sit perfectly in the housing as it is bolted down to keep everything aligned .. make sure the bracket is sitting in the cutout and all bolted down without anything out of place , this can be tricky ..

I would then disconnect the coupler and make sure everything is free and easy at this point .. once you have that sorted put the coupler back and align.. that can be tricky also and it may take a few atempts.

[Newbrunswicktod]

Thanks Hansv123 and Iceman. I will try these suggestions. I have a feeling there is an issue with the bushing. As you suggested iceman and from everything else I've read, it shouldn't have been as hard to seat into the adaptor as it was and it should move more freely along the rod. The bushing came with the car and I am not 100% confident that it is the proper OEM part. I am going to order another bushing from our host to see if that makes the difference.

Thanks agin for the suggestions guys - very much appreciated.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Newbrunswicktod

Hello Pelicans. I am encountering a problem with a shifter bushing replacement project. I just bought an 85 Carrera that came with a non factory short shift kit that I don't care for. I got a regular shifter to swap out the short shifter and thought that I would replace the ball bushing on the bottom of the shifter and the rod bushing while I'm at it. The ball bushing was a snap but I had quite time getting the rod bushing pressed into the adaptor. When finally got it in place and slid the adaptor over the rod, it seemed quite tight and it was a bit of a chore to get it back in place to where it bolts on to the tunnel. When I put everything together and tightened all the shifter base bolts to the tunnel, the shifter was really tight and would only allow 1st and 2nd gear. If I completely loosen the two bolts that tighten the adaptor, things free up and all gears will engage. It's like the adaptor is not completely parallel with the shift rod and binds up when tightened.

I am quite sure that I put everything back the way it came out but if there are any suggestions out there on where I may have erred, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks.

If the shifting action binds while tightening the adapter bolts, then the shift lever ball end and the shift shaft axis aren't on the same plane. For example, factory or aftermarket short shift levers are longer below the pivot (so is a 930 shift lever, by a lot). If a new-to-you lever is installed w/o their matching components, tightening the housing mounting bolts will/may bind the shift linkage per your symptoms.

Can you post some pics of the underside of the shifter and the shift shaft area?

Sherwood
SeineSystems

[Newbrunswicktod]

Thanks Sherwood. I am away for a couple days but will post some pics over the weekend.

Todd

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

If the shifting action binds while tightening the adapter bolts, then the shift lever ball end and the shift shaft axis aren't on the same plane. For example, factory or aftermarket short shift levers are longer below the pivot (so is a 930 shift lever, by a lot). If a new-to-you lever is installed w/o their matching components, tightening the housing mounting bolts will/may bind the shift linkage per your symptoms.

Can you post some pics of the underside of the shifter and the shift shaft area?

Sherwood
SeineSystems

thats a great point. what components did you swap exactly.

[Newbrunswicktod]

Hello back in town and had a chance to post the attached photo. You can see the short shifter on the left and the replacement on the right. The short shifter has a spacer but even with the spacer, the end of the shifter is about 2 or 3 millimeters shorter than with the standard shifter without the spacer. So it seems that the standard shifter with a longer length of shifter below the base is pushing the shift shift rod downward and binding the rod at the tunnel bushing. Is there anyway of adjusting the height of the shifter to allow it to slide upwards. The spacer is too thick on the standard shifter and would not allow enough of the shift rod to extend below the base of the shifter. Thought? Thanks all.

[uwanna]

I think you may have a mixup of shifter sticks! The Weltmeister (w/spacer) uses a longer stick. There are two other stick lengths, the standard 915 and the factory short shift stick.
So there are three shifter geometries.
Check this pic of all three sticks side by side. 915Shift Levers
As a matter of fact, if you want a short shifter education go to the Seine site.
Seine Systems > Gate Shift Kit

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by uwanna

I think you may have a mixup of shifter sticks! The Weltmeister (w/spacer) uses a longer stick. There are two other stick lengths, the standard 915 and the factory short shift stick.
So there are three shifter geometries.
Check this pic of all three sticks side by side. 915Shift Levers
As a matter of fact, if you want a short shifter education go to the Seine site.
Seine Systems > Gate Shift Kit

I tend to agree. Sounds like an incompatible mix of shift housing pieces.

The factory and the WM shift levers install in the same factory "box" (rectangular lever holder) even though the WM lever is longer below the pivot point WM re-aligns lever with shift rod by inserting a spacer below the housing to raise the housing (same distance as the increased lever length (approx. 12mm).

Instead of a spacer plate, the factory short shifter uses an offset box that raises the physical location of the pivot pin (by 12mm) so the ball end of the lever remains aligned with the shift rod.

Show us a pic of the respective "lever boxes" to confirm what pieces you have/need.

Sherwood
Seine Systems

[Newbrunswicktod]

Not sure if this is the pic you were looking for but here is one of the inside of each, short shift on the left, standard on the right. Thanks for the help.

Todd

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Newbrunswicktod

Not sure if this is the pic you were looking for but here is one of the inside of each, short shift on the left, standard on the right. Thanks for the help.

Todd

Photos are too similar. Maybe they are. For our purposes, label the shift housings A and B.

Can you measure/compare the length of the lever from the same reference points - pivot to end of lever? Looking for differences rather than similarities. Or are they in fact the same?

Can you photograph the box at a more oblique angle so the side of the box is more visible? That would help define similarities vs differences; regular or factory short shift.

S

[toreboee]

Newbrunswicktod,

if you use the same bolts on your new kit without the spacer plate from the Weltmister kit they will be too long and thus protrude to far through the plate and hit your shifting shaft in the tunnel. I believe thats why it all loosens up when you undo the bolts.

Good luck!

[Newbrunswicktod]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I've attached two photos and attempted to show more detail of the inside of the shifters. They appear to be identical and have the same part number-91142401906. The only difference I can see is the length of the shifter below the pivot point. The short shifter measures 2 3/4 inches from the centre of the pivot point to the end of the shaft. The standard shifter measures 2 inches. While the short shifter has more length below the pivot point, when the plate is in place, it actually has less length below the base than the regular shifter - 1/2 an inch compared to 5/8th of an inch for the standard shifter. However, the extra length of the standard shifter is not bottoming out in the rod cup and binding the rod in the bushing. I can see plenty of the white bushing still well above the top of the cup. So I am back to the rod bushing. The shifter shifts fine until I tighten up the two bolts attached to the shift rod adaptor. There was no probelm before I installed the new bushing because the old bushing was in two peices laying in the tunnel when I took the first shifter out. Are there any tricks to installing the bushing adaptor? Perhaps I'm missing a spacer between the adaptor and the tunnel that keeps the adapter a little lower in the tunnel and better aligns the bushing with the rod? I'm stumped.


I beleive my issue is with the rod bushing. The

[Newbrunswicktod]

PS Toreboee: I tried your suggestion of shorter bolts and it did not make a difference. Great suggestion - made sense but not the problem unfortunately.

[GeorgeRud]

I was told it's a good idea to warm the bushing in some hot water to make it softer, then it pops right into the bracket. You might want to remove it (put the entire bracket in hot water), then try to pop it back into the bracket. If it didn't seat correctly, it may be binding the shift rod. A bit of white lithium grease on the shift bar wouldn't hurt either.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRud

I was told it's a good idea to warm the bushing in some hot water to make it softer, then it pops right into the bracket. You might want to remove it (put the entire bracket in hot water), then try to pop it back into the bracket. If it didn't seat correctly, it may be binding the shift rod. A bit of white lithium grease on the shift bar wouldn't hurt either.

Todd says it shifts fine with the (2) M6 shifter-to-adapter through bolts loose. If so, it seems the shift shaft bushing is installed okay.

The issue seems to be narrowed down to the alignment of the 90º shift shaft bracket. For some reason, clamping the housing adapter bolts causes the lever and shaft support to bind, as if the lever is bottoming out on the shift shaft receptacle.

Can I assume the rear ledge of the adapter plate sits on top of the tunnel? When the bolts are tightened, does the bracket somehow distort and/or is forced into an angle that causes the shift shaft to bind?

There's only a few pieces left to inspect. Can you upload a pic of the area that includes the shaft shaft, bracket and nylon support bushing?

Sherwood

[toreboee]

" I can see plenty of the white bushing still well above the top of the cup"
Perhaps the answer lies here. If the ball is not properly seated in the shift cup it will not be on the same axes as the shift shaft in the tunnel but slightly abvoe. This may prevent the cup from pivoting around the ball when you move the gearselector around.
If the shift rod was longer the ball would be properly seated and centered relative to the shift shaft in the tunnel. When you move the gearselector to the left, the ball cup should tilt to the right (arround the ball). This may not be possible if its out of alignment?
Could it be that the kit you bought is put together with the wrong gearselector rod as mentioned by others?
You could try swapping for the longer selector stick just to se if you get the lateral movement. I know you wont get correct longitudenal movement, however it may help in the troubbleshooting.