VR or Alternator

[JoeyD911]

I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here. I've been working on the car with renewed vigor over the last couple weeks. Installed SSI M&K combo, adjusted valves, gave her a tune up and some other various little items. However, there is one issue that has been giving me some trouble.

I've searched and read at least 50 posts on this subject so far and I'm still stuck. I get the intermittent seat belt light coming on and an occasional headlight brightening with rpm increase. I've tested the voltage at the battery and can't find it high, low or spiking. With a meter it seems to check out fine. Battery is not that old and has been kept pretty well during the hibernation months of late November to about April. I put a charge to it several times over that period, though it has died on a couple occasions. I never run on anything but a fully charged battery once it's time to ride again.

Cut to the chase, I know I can replace the VR as that is the most likely culprit for intermittent issues. How many have changed out the 80 dollar regulator only to find you need the 350 dollar alternator and had an 80 buck spare part you may never need again? I guess this is a "what would you do" question. I've just spent a wad of cash on all the latest upgrades so funding is tricky. I also don't like the idea of setting the old girl on fire due to ignoring this problem either. Any more definitive tests I can do to make up my mind the right way to go?

I know I sound like a babbling idiot at this point, but us babbling idiots are people too!

Please help me out here.

Thanks in advance.

[sacoffee]

Count me in!

When i pulled out the 25 year old alternator it was in bad shape although it was working. I didn't want to go thru the pain again so I replace the whole thing. Know I have and $80 VR sitting in my tool box (hell PM me if you want a deal)

[Joe Bob]

Well.....if you have an internal VR it has be pulled to be repaired.

External VR, plug a new one in.

YOU really should have a digital volt meter. Test the battery at rest, running and at 2500 rpms. If it is intermittent you should wire a meter in to see what happens when the light comes on or any gauge goes wonky.

DO NOT buy a reman. Find an old school rebuilder.

[JoeyD911]

Joe Bob are you saying don't buy a reman from anyone? I'm trying to be good here, in consideration of the host. Whats the difference in a reman as to a rebuild. Does a seller of reman Alternators not send them to a rebuilder and then sell them as remanufactured? I swear I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ here. Really value your opinion of the difference. I've learned a lot from your advice to others and would like to hear what you and others say about the subject. I can only source rebuilt on Pelican. I do my best to stay pretty loyal to a company that's helped out in so many ways, a few extra bucks here and there is relatively meaningless.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by JoeyD911

I'm caught between a rock and a hard place here. I've been working on the car with renewed vigor over the last couple weeks. Installed SSI M&K combo, adjusted valves, gave her a tune up and some other various little items. However, there is one issue that has been giving me some trouble.

I've searched and read at least 50 posts on this subject so far and I'm still stuck. I get the intermittent seat belt light coming on and an occasional headlight brightening with rpm increase. I've tested the voltage at the battery and can't find it high, low or spiking. With a meter it seems to check out fine. Battery is not that old and has been kept pretty well during the hibernation months of late November to about April. I put a charge to it several times over that period, though it has died on a couple occasions. I never run on anything but a fully charged battery once it's time to ride again.

Cut to the chase, I know I can replace the VR as that is the most likely culprit for intermittent issues. How many have changed out the 80 dollar regulator only to find you need the 350 dollar alternator and had an 80 buck spare part you may never need again? I guess this is a "what would you do" question. I've just spent a wad of cash on all the latest upgrades so funding is tricky. I also don't like the idea of setting the old girl on fire due to ignoring this problem either. Any more definitive tests I can do to make up my mind the right way to go?

I know I sound like a babbling idiot at this point, but us babbling idiots are people too!

Please help me out here.

Thanks in advance.

If it is the VR the most likely form of failure is that the voltage sensitive relay's contacts are sticking, stuck, WELDED, closed. Remove the VR cover and use the wife's nail file to smooth the contacts. If that should work then you're good to go long enough for PP to ship.

The place to measure the voltage is nearest the alternator, the battery will "absorb", sink voltage spikes up to a point, wherein the electrolyte begins to boil and you then smell "sewer" gas.

[JoeyD911]

I wouldn't even go near an alternator in a 911 with battery connected. Much less put a meter to a functioning one while running. And messing within and taking apart the VR, in the original post I did say I did not want to set fire to the old girl!

[JoeyD911]

I did read some posts mentioning what Joe Bob said about PP and other remanufactured suppliers. I'm now inclined to buy the regulator (Steve were you serious? sent you a PM) and then try swapping that out. If the problem is still there I pull the Alternator and have it built locally. There has to be someone on Long Island who can do this job. I guess I could just tell the builder to not worry about the VR as it was new and just do the rest of the unit.

Driving season here is short enough for me, how long does it usually take someone to do an alternator?

[wwest]

Sorry the correct place to measure the system voltage is at any of the fuses in the driver's side of the engine compartment. Did not mean to imply going inside the alternator. The VR, maybe, once the cover is removed.

If the alternator is "spiking" then the battery will act much like a high value capacitor and thus you will only see the average system voltage across the battery terminals. With a few hundred milliohms between the battery and the engine compartment your digital meter will be much more likely to read the highest charging voltage closer to the VR/Alternator.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by JoeyD911

I did read some posts mentioning what Joe Bob said about PP and other remanufactured suppliers. I'm now inclined to buy the regulator (Steve were you serious? sent you a PM) and then try swapping that out. If the problem is still there I pull the Alternator and have it built locally. There has to be someone on Long Island who can do this job. I guess I could just tell the builder to not worry about the VR as it was new and just do the rest of the unit.

Driving season here is short enough for me, how long does it usually take someone to do an alternator?

Many wrecking yards do a "rebuild", sandblast, paint, replace the bearings, slip ring brushes, polish the slip rings, replace the bridge diode pak and internal VR only if they don't test out.

Remanufacturing involves new VR, diodes, rewinding and refurbishing the stator windings/insulators, plus rebuilding the slip rings etc.

[James Brown]

there is a great alt. shop in my home town, i take everything there 1-2 day turnaround. i love these guys and supporting "made in america". with others, you don't have any control over where the remanufactured parts come from.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by JoeyD911

I wouldn't even go near an alternator in a 911 with battery connected. Much less put a meter to a functioning one while running. And messing within and taking apart the VR, in the original post I did say I did not want to set fire to the old girl!

If you take the cover off the VR it will be easy to see if the contacts are welded shut.

[JoeyD911]

Just purchased a VR, new, from a fellow Pelican, I'll install this and let you know where I stand. I've got some other issues to take care of as well. After the SSI install I've got the serious itch now. This is why I titled my post on that "starting down the slope" God, I so know what that means now! Guess I'll need to do some heavy editing of my signature soon.

[Jdub]

The reason to have your alternator rebuilt is that you know it is going to go back in for certain on reinstall. Just read any of the anguished posters who cannot get the old leads to match, the length of the thread posts correct, or otherwise to gain an appreciation about avoiding a very avoidable problem.

PP may have some rebuilds that fail out of the box, but not more or less than anyone else - it is a crapshoot.

[JoeyD911]

Dub, best reason so far to get mine rebuilt, thanks. If the VR doesn't solve the issue, I'll go down that route.

[sacoffee]

I haven't return my altenator for core return yet, hint, hint

[S2GART]

I am actually going through a similar problem with bouncing tach and seatbelt light coming on, yet not the battery light. Anyways, with the engine off, battery reads 12.7v, at idle, 14.5, rev it to 1500, she hits 17-18v. Bought a new VR from our hosts, put it in, and the problem got worse. Now at idle she reads 16v. Was told to get the alt tested and if the shop says the VR is indeed bad right out of the box, they will send me a new one.

[sacoffee]

Originally Posted by gilczbq

When i pulled out the 25 year old alternator it was in bad shape although it was working.

Mine as well, stator had 1/4" grooves

[wwest]

Originally Posted by S2GART

I am actually going through a similar problem with bouncing tach and seatbelt light coming on, yet not the battery light. Anyways, with the engine off, battery reads 12.7v, at idle, 14.5, rev it to 1500, she hits 17-18v. Bought a new VR from our hosts, put it in, and the problem got worse. Now at idle she reads 16v. Was told to get the alt tested and if the shop says the VR is indeed bad right out of the box, they will send me a new one.

My tach bounced more "wildly", often shutting the engine down, on a bump, or bumpy roadbed.

Once I removed and disassembled the alternator the reason was obvious, much of the insulating material supporting the stator windings had long since been burned way due to alternator overheating. Hit a bump, stator winding shorts, VR tries to get the other 2 phases to make up for the loss.

Average voltage okay, SPIKES measured at the rear at 18 volts.

[al lkosmal]

Originally Posted by James Brown

there is a great alt. shop in my home town, i take everything there 1-2 day turnaround. i love these guys and supporting "made in america". with others, you don't have any control over where the remanufactured parts come from.

James,
PM me with your alternator repair shop contact info. I can't find anybody in MV that can do the job.

regards,
Al

[wwest]

Originally Posted by al lkosmal

James,
PM me with your alternator repair shop contact info. I can't find anybody in MV that can do the job.

regards,
Al

Call Squire in Bellevue, he'l know someone.