Recommended Air Flow over the front A/C condenser

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Towards what end? What are we progressing towards?

IT's yet another diversion, and another page from the book of "I'm Not Wrong", wwest, publisher.

It's a fascinating thing, this "prove me wrong" line he has going. The premise is faulty - proving a negative is impossible. For a guy who says he relies on logic to arrive at conclusions, he is supremely unaware of what actual "logic" entails. He is unclear about science, he is unfamiliar with technical terms, and he is uninformed about the actual operation of the components of the 911 AC system. But he will nitpick around the edges in a pedantic way to try an impeach someone else's credibility.

What he doesn't realize is that this only cements further his own lack of credibility. Pedantry is another hallmark of the troll.

Or a bored, old man with nothing better to do with his time. It's sad. Very sad. I pity him his lack of life.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Temp increase does not = a linear increase in pressure because there are other factors.

Yes, I recall this from the Gilligan thread.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Temp increase does not = a linear increase in pressure because there are other factors. Like the 40 feet of hose that equalize the pressure increase. When I did the test I don't doubt that temps on the condenser rose... But pressure didn't rise.
If wwest is so convinced there is no reason to not prove it with a video. Except he is afraid he might be wrong...

Of course he is wrong. And his position here is to question everything and have other post evidence. From that, he can glean inconsistencies and differences, then claim victory. Or he can criticize the experimental design (without actually proving that the design is faulty) and claim the results invalid.

It's easy to be a critic. But if you take it too far, you become a buffoon.

As to the condenser temperature rise, I think I calculated what it would take to raise the pressure in the condenser to 400psi (just the condenser, not the rest of the system), and the temperature was above the normal operating temp of the motor. IOW, the condenser will NEVER see that temperature in real life, anywhere in the U.S., including Death Valley in the summer.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Yes, I recall this from the Gilligan thread. Silber was laying on the learning, right?

Hey, I can whip out the the gas law again. Wanna see it?

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

OK - I understand the 398. Thx

No I must of missed this test:

Twice, each with multiple test series, sequences, I have shown that the rear lid condenser fin/vane temperature rises post engine shutoff, 120F - 150F IIRC.

Are you saying the above sentence / test negates the need for a "video"?

I don't know the answer, but it may save three hundred posts before it's asked again if this is your basis for not addressing the video request.

In the test I did, repeated serveral times as proof to myself, and posted, the rear lid condenser fin/vane temperature rose from about 120F to about 150F post engine shutdown. Admittedly not a big "movement" but it does go to prove that the high side pressure will often rise post engine shutdown. Just how much is a function of happenstance.

I still plan to do the video, but in my own good time. Only my wife gets tto command the "how high" response.

I do have guages, purchased long ago, 93-94, when I was still trying to sort out the automatic climate control system in my then '92 LS400. The Lexus factory shop/repair manuals tended to leave out some important aspects of the operation.

At this moment the '88 system is down being fitted with a Red Dot trinary switch. The plan of the moment is to determine what is the rear lid condenser fin/vane temperature cognizant with the opening and closing of the switch's third, fan/shutter, control element.

With that knowledge in hand we will be able to design a circuit that uses a thermistor taped to the rear lid condenser outlet to automatically switch the cabin heater blower on/off.

Or maybe even use the thermistor as an input to the PWM motor controller so that the blower speed will rise in accordance with a rise in condenser fin/vane temperature.

Maybe even add "auto-heat" to the '88 using then new PWM variability of the cabin heater fan/blower speed.

No need to open the system to add the feature.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Hey, I can whip out the the gas law again. Wanna see it?

I removed the "Silber was laying on the learning" as after I wrote it, I looked up what pedantry means and thought - Oh crap, if Will takes the time to look it up what pedantry means it will be another red herring argument offered up by the master of wind.

[brads911sc]

The resident expert of nothing is dreaming up a new theory as we speak. Of course a 30 second test would eliminate the need but he is a bored old senile man with nothing better to do...

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

I removed the "Silber was laying on the learning" as after I wrote it, I looked up what pedantry means and thought - Oh crap, if Will takes the time to look it up what pedantry means it will be another red herring argument offered up by the master of wind.

Sorry, I'm a long-time veteran of USENET, and have seen wwest in his innumerable forms before. It's all the same person, and humbling them with actual knowledge is sometimes satisfying. I will admit that sometimes I also whip out my Funk and Wagnalls a little too often. My apologies for the vocabulary assault - I did not intend to use that weapon on anyone but wwest.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

Temp increase does not = a linear increase in pressure because there are other factors.

Like the 40 feet of hose that equalize the pressure increase.

Yes, the pressure will EQUALIZE throughout the accessable volume. But that pressure will be a function of the average temperature throughout the entire volume.

When I did the test I don't doubt that temps on the condenser rose... But pressure didn't rise.

If wwest is so convinced there is no reason to not prove it with a video. Except he is afraid he might be wrong...

In my test case if the 30F rise in fin/vane temperature could have been "balanced" by an equal cooling elsewhere in the volume then no pressure increase would have been present.

But since that didn't, COULD NOT happen, the entire volume pressure rose.

Oh, no one ever said "linear" rise in pressure.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

The resident expert of nothing is dreaming up a new theory as we speak. Of course a 30 second test would eliminate the need but he is a bored old senile man with nothing better to do...

No need to dream up anything new, just reassert over and over and over and OVER that his original assumption is correct, denying all the while any other data that comes along. That the beauty of being right in all things - if there are data that show me to be wrong, then that must mean those data are wrong.

A perfect circle. Unbreakable. And utterly stupid.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

No need to dream up anything new, just reassert over and over and over and OVER that his original assumption is correct, denying all the while any other data that comes along. That the beauty of being right in all things - if there are data that show me to be wrong, then that must mean those data are wrong.

A perfect circle. Unbreakable. And utterly stupid.

Maybe one of these would help him?!

Amazon.com: The Thinking Toolbox: Thirty-five Lessons That Will Build Your Reasoning Skills (9780974531519): Nathaniel Bluedorn, Hans Bluedorn, Richard LaPierre: Books

The Art of Argument: Aaron Larsen, Joelle Hodge: 9781600510182: Amazon.com: Books

Critical Thinking: The Art of Argument (Available Titles Aplia): George W. Rainbolt, Sandra L. Dwyer: 9780495501572: Amazon.com: Books

[brads911sc]

Post the video wwest

[brads911sc]

Quote de wwest

In my test case if the 30F rise in fin/vane temperature could have been "balanced" by an equal cooling elsewhere in the volume then no pressure increase would have been present.



But since that didn't, COULD NOT happen, the entire volume pressure rose.



Oh, no one ever said "linear" rise in pressure.

Prove it. Post the video!!!!

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

My apologies for the vocabulary assault - I did not intend to use that weapon on anyone but wwest.

No offense taken and none intended.

I remembered reading the pressure / temp discussion a week or so back and was just attempting to confirm the location. Then I figured out what I stated (Silber layed some learning....) may provide the REoN some more ammo with respect to the p-word.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by wwest

In the test I did, repeated serveral times as proof to myself, and posted,

Thanks for the response. I remember the post now.

Originally Posted by wwest

Only my wife gets tto command the "how high" response.

"How high" is also applicable to your jump height when she directs your actions.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Maybe one of these would help him?!

Amazon.com: The Thinking Toolbox: Thirty-five Lessons That Will Build Your Reasoning Skills (9780974531519): Nathaniel Bluedorn, Hans Bluedorn, Richard LaPierre: Books

The Art of Argument: Aaron Larsen, Joelle Hodge: 9781600510182: Amazon.com: Books

Critical Thinking: The Art of Argument (Available Titles Aplia): George W. Rainbolt, Sandra L. Dwyer: 9780495501572: Amazon.com: Books

The first and the third are excellent books. I have read them.

The middle one I have not read, but if it helps wwest at all in the area of critical thinking...

[brads911sc]

Why would wwest read them? He is the resident expert that has proven all his theories in his own mind and you are just a unskilled naysayer.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by brads911sc

......... has proven all his theories in his own mind and you are just a unskilled naysayer.

I don't get it.

His theories are usually at the very least worth thinking about at first blush but they are unfortunately delivered as edicts. He is a lateral thinker and in non-AC threads he has hit the nail on the head more than once saving some poor souls butt. Plus, considering the crap he receives/deserves, he is overall pretty much a gentleman to other than griff and those he has put cross hairs on.

Why the disruptive and disorderly conduct? The dude could be a contender if he had some manners.

[brads911sc]

I don't get it either. Even his spal fan idea is worth considering. As you say. But all of these things could be proven easily... Or not...
If he weren't so hostile we could debate and prove or not...

Quote de brads911sc

......... has proven all his theories in his own mind and you are just a unskilled naysayer.

I don't get it.



His theories are usually at the very least worth thinking about at first blush but they are unfortunately delivered as edicts. He is a lateral thinker and in non-AC threads he has hit the nail on the head more than once saving some poor souls butt. Plus, considering the crap he receives/deserves, he is overall pretty much a gentleman to other than griff and those he has put cross hairs on.



Why the disruptive and disorderly conduct? The dude could be a contender if he had some manners.

[wwest]

Come on guys, let's not go soft on me now, look at all you've accomplished in forcing me to go back to the books/Google, thinking 'way outside the box, again and again.

WE may make a product, or 2, out of this yet.

So, keep it up...!