Help Finding Oil Leak From Pictures Please!

[Bill Jennings]

1977 Carrera 3.0 with 121000 miles.
I have owned it just over one year, put 7000 miles on it, it has always lost a bit of oil but doesn't smoke. It dripped enough to put a piece of cardboard on the garage floor where I park it.
I used to get the odd whif of burnt oil but nothing major.

However, today after a 30 mile drive it smelled very strongly of burnt oil and when I parked and I got a "Hey Mister Your car is smoking" from a passer by as I walked away from it.
I don't know if anyone can diagnose an oil leak from looking at pictures but please have a look and help me where to start looking please.

Apologies for the poor quality iPad pics.

The first pic is of how much oil dropped in about 25 minutes.
I noticed that the bottom corner of the oil cooler in the last picture looks as if it was cleaned from flowing oil so my initial suspicion is that its oil cooler seals.

What is immediately above that corner of the oil cooler? something that is easy to fix and doesn't need a engine drop to get at????

[boyt911sc]

Bill,

Clean very well the underside of the engine and start observing where the oil drips originate. Most likely sources for this oil leak are:

Flywheel oil seal
Pressure oil switch
Engine thermostat
Crankcase breather hose and cover

Others:
Engine cooler seals
Oil return tubes
Valve covers

I prefer to drop the engine and do the work of cleaning, replacing, and installing seals or parts than working with the engine installed. Aside from the back breaking task of getting under the car since you don't have a lift, the convenient and efficiency is much desired with the engine out.

Tony

[Bill Jennings]

Tony,
Will take your advice and clean it up as much as possible to see if I can find the source(s).

I was hoping a engine drop was not in my immediate future but if it is I guess it is time I joined the club.

Is there any one particular item in your list that would let go suddenly, as I have gone from a slow drip to what appears to be a free flowing leak!

Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Bill

[Jcslocum]

Bill, the triangle of death is where to start looking for this kind of no leak to gusher. It's on the top of the engine, right center all the way to the front near the trans joint. Oil send is the most likely culprit. Stuff you digital camera back there and take some pics. If it leaking there you will see it. It can be done in the car with some patience and removal of other parts.

Search triangle of death and you will find some significant info.

Next would be an oil cooler failure; seals or the cooler itself. My cooler failed and that really does require at least a partial engine drop. Very hard to get out with the engine in place.

Expandable push rod tube are the bomb if that is what it is. Tho hard to see them going like this tho....

Good luck!!!

[Bill Jennings]

Jon,

I didn't think about taking a picture of the top front of the engine, thanks thats a good idea.

I was aware of the triangle but didn't know it could come on rapidly which is why I was thinking of the cooler and the high oil pressure that can occur there.

The push rod tubes look dry to me.

Cheers
Bill

[James Brown]

that much oil in 25 min. points to several sources, if you could, drop the engine/trans and dig in. Most oil leaks are superficial to the engine and easily fixed OUTSIDE of the car. you can get to all the leak points. valve covers, rocker shafts, oil sender, oil breather, oil cooler, oil lines, thermostat, head gaskets (YIKES).
you can do a valve adjustment easer and you don't have to remove most of the intake stuff

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Jcslocum

Next would be an oil cooler failure; seals or the cooler itself.

Embarrassed to say this but I cracked my oil cooler installing my engine last time around. It had internal cracks in the casting where the oil exit tube took the stress of the engine weight when I dropped it (very slowly) on to some obstruction on the ground. Probably support blocks of wood.

Anyways, could not see a thing externally but with rear end in the air when idling, it was real evident where the leak came from.

I did it with a partial drop. It was a knuckle scraper and profanity was free flowing - but it beat a full drop by a country mile.

[Bill Jennings]

I took some pictures of the front top of the engine.

I assume this is classic triangle of death.

I can take more if you point me in the right direction.

I've ordered the breather gasket, thermostat o-ring, pressure switch and sealing ring and oil cooler o- rings.

Can these be done with a partial engine drop?????

Cheers
Bill

[schumicat]

damn that's nasty. that is like the triangle of death to the next level.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by schumicat

damn that's nasty.

On the up side, oil on the throttle linkage plate would indicate to me something in the oil breather area. Do-able without a full engine removal. Partial engine drop but still a wrestling match.

However, if it's the breather gasket or hose, why would it leak over a long period of time post shutdown?

[SchnellSchweitz]

My money is on multiple locations, but the oil on top in your last pics would lead me to check the engine thermostat seal.

I'd also be inclined to check my rocker arms, inside the valve covers, to see if there are any leaks coming from there that's adding to the leakage.

Both of these can be checked before lowering your engine.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Bill Jennings

I took some pictures of the front top of the engine.

I assume this is classic triangle of death.

I can take more if you point me in the right direction.

I've ordered the breather gasket, thermostat o-ring, pressure switch and sealing ring and oil cooler o- rings.

Can these be done with a partial engine drop?????

Cheers
Bill

Bill,

It is safe to say you have not done a 911 engine drop before? It is the anxiety of doing things the first time that keeps people from doing the correct procedure. If you have not done one before, this is the right time to do it!!!!

You can not do a good job by just a partial drop. There are so many possible spots or locations where oil leak/s are coming out from your motor. The time involve between a partial drop and complete engine drop to sort this problem would be almost be the same. Plus you could do more things efficiently with the engine on a stand.

BTW, we call the area of the engine as the rear top (pic 1) not front top this side of the hemisphere (just kidding). I have something for you how to conquer the triangle of death.

Tony

[Jcslocum]

Bill, I would take a much closer look at the sender there with the red top. It appears from the pic that is has fresh wet oil on it. It's the typical 10 dollar part that causes an epic failure of a car. This can be done with the engine in place by stripping some of the intake induction off on the center and right side. That sender is screwed right into the oil system and can leak very badly as its under pressure all the time the engine is running, and since its on top, it can cover the whole back side of the engine and drip a long time.

1 step at a time and attack the cheap easy and obvious things first.

[SCOTITUDE]

im gonna plus one slocum. fresh oil on sender would be my guess,. swap it out and clean the whole area up. yuk!

[strikee]

Im willing to bet this is the oil pressure switch. Bill I have a spare if you can replace at some stage.
Cheers
Ed

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Bill Jennings

The push rod tubes look dry to me. CheersBill

Well, I guess they would have to be dry as there aren't any pushrods or pushrod tubes in that engine (I know you're talking about the oil return tubes - just yankin yer chain)

[timmy2]

Time to join the club... Drop the engine and tranny, clean it all up, fix the leaks, stick it back in.
2 weekends and a few nights in between and you'll be done!

[Bill Jennings]

Tony,
Thanks for the advice. A full drop it is but I may take a quick look with a partial as I was booked on a track day at Marulan this sat.
You have a PM.

Ed,
I have ordered a oil pressure switch for the idiot light along with the other triangle gaskets and oil cooler o-rings from Porsche in Alexandria and they posted them today.
Many thanks for your kind offer as I am assuming we are talking about the same part?

Ronnie,
I knew it was wrong just as I posted the reply, I blame copious amounts of Crown Royal and the fact I park the Porsche next to my 86 Softail.

Cheers
Bill

[schumicat]

I would replace the plastic bushings in the throttle linkage while you have engine out. they are cheap and easy while engine is out. check the rubber vent hoses for cracking/brittleness.

[Bill Jennings]

Did a partial drop to take a quick look and there was a clean patch next to the pressure switch for the idiot light so that is at least one source if not the major source.
I also found that my shifter bushing has play in it so will deal with that too!
So I am now preparing for a full engine drop to deal with all of the leaks and do a good inspection of everything while I am in there.

Cheers
Bill