VIN Number Engine number question

Dumans24 · 08-22-2013, 06:20 AM

I have a 911 with VIN Number of 91133017XX (not really X's)

When I check the Fahrzeugidentifikation website the range of numbers for 73 911S is 9113300001-9113301430 which is under my last four digits of 17XX.
My engine number is 6131104 which possibly is in the 911T range but I can't find that number on the list either. Can anyone help me confirm these numbers as I don't see either of them matching up on sites I have checked? THANKS!!

ossiblue · 08-22-2013, 06:54 AM

My reading of the site confirms that 91133017XX is beyond the range of S cars. I would only say that you need to be absolutely certain that the eighth digit is a 7. There are stories of S cars being rebodied, and this may be the case here, but I am no expert on this.

As far as the engine number, the range of T engines is from 6130001-6131926 for type 911/51 and even greater for type 911/61, 91, and 96. All these engines would include your 6131104.

Dumans24 · 08-22-2013, 07:36 AM

Thanks ossiblue. Yeah it does look like the engine is in the 911T range. I confirmed again that the eighth digit is a 7 on three different locations I found the number.

Peter Zimmermann · 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumans24

Thanks ossiblue. Yeah it does look like the engine is in the 911T range. I confirmed again that the eighth digit is a 7 on three different locations I found the number.

Are some of the "three locations" on the car, or on invoices/registration documents?

By the book, the only model range of '73 cars that extends into the "1700" range are the RoW coupes (fitted with carburetors) where the 5th digit is a "5".

djpateman · 08-22-2013, 09:14 AM

I love to figure out anomalies like this. The engine should be a US 911T type 911/51.
I'm curious about the fifth digit in 91133017XX, is it really a 3 or perhaps a 5. I think it really should be a 5. It is not unknown for the factory to mis-stamp the numbers. Photos would help me a lot. If you want to do it privately, then PM me for my email address.

Dumans24 · 08-22-2013, 09:41 AM

The three places I see the number are on the car. Stamped under trunk by where the spare tire would be. Inside near windshield pillar and chassis ID plate under where the trunk lid latches.

Peter Zimmermann · 08-22-2013, 09:49 AM

Can you read the type number of the engine, stamped just forward of the engine number on a horizontal part of the engine case? It will be a "911/xx".

Dumans24 · 08-22-2013, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peter zimmermann

can you read the type number of the engine, stamped just forward of the engine number on a horizontal part of the engine case? It will be a "911/xx".

911/51

ossiblue · 08-22-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

Are some of the "three locations" on the car, or on invoices/registration documents?

By the book, the only model range of '73 cars that extends into the "1700" range are the RoW coupes (fitted with carburetors) where the 5th digit is a "5".

Quote:

Originally Posted by djpateman

I love to figure out anomalies like this. The engine should be a US 911T type 911/51.
I'm curious about the fifth digit in 91133017XX, is it really a 3 or perhaps a 5. I think it really should be a 5. It is not unknown for the factory to mis-stamp the numbers. Photos would help me a lot. If you want to do it privately, then PM me for my email address.

This seems to be the most likely answer. Wow, if it is a true mis-stamping, what a find. Now the question will be, does it qualify as an S chassis or a mis-stamped T chassis? Would there be anyway to find out, like the production number under the knee pad? What about the brakes, are they S brakes?

This could get interesting.

91133 · 91133's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumans24

The three places I see the number are on the car. Stamped under trunk by where the spare tire would be. Inside near windshield pillar and chassis ID plate under where the trunk lid latches.

Suggest you also check under the knee pad below the dash fascia - this number should match the one you found stamped in the trunk rearward of the gas tank.

djpateman · 08-23-2013, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91133

Suggest you also check under the knee pad below the dash fascia - this number should match the one you found stamped in the trunk rearward of the gas tank.

This is not correct. The stamped #on the lower portion of the dash frame under the knee pad was the VIN only to the end of 1968 model year, and from 1969 MY (to well into the 1970's at least) it was a production # that bears no resemblance to the VIN.

Dumans24 · 08-23-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossiblue

This seems to be the most likely answer. Wow, if it is a true mis-stamping, what a find. Now the question will be, does it qualify as an S chassis or a mis-stamped T chassis? Would there be anyway to find out, like the production number under the knee pad? What about the brakes, are they S brakes?

This could get interesting.

The stamped chassis and window post look correct but maybe not real. The numbers under the knee pad have been drilled out (maybe a dead give-away.

I am a real newbie. How can I tell if S brakes?

ossiblue · 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumans24

The stamped chassis and window post look correct but maybe not real. The numbers under the knee pad have been drilled out (maybe a dead give-away.

I am a real newbie. How can I tell if S brakes?

Here are your two main give-aways. Posting good, close photos of the VIN stampings in all areas will help us confirm if the stampings are real. Sometimes, the tell-tale sign is the shape of the digits or the rivets used to affix the plates to the car so if you're not familiar with what an unmolested stamping or plate looks like, other eyes can be used.

As far as the production number, someone has to go to a lot of trouble to obliterate it so it's very likely this was done to obscure the true identity of the chassis. In your case, probably to pass a non-S chassis off as an S. I wouldn't be too concerned about the brakes (you can do a search for "S brakes" and get a photo of the differences) because all cars had the option of these brakes, plus S trim and gauges. If someone was trying to pass off a non-S chassis by altering the VIN and removing the production number, then I'm sure the S add-ons were included as well.

If you can, post as many pictures of areas mentioned, or any other areas that others offer up as that is the only way (short of an in person inspection by an expert) to help you solve this mystery.

djpateman · 08-25-2013, 10:37 AM

I have seen the photos of the various tags. The windshield VIN tag does not have the raised edges of the original, and the manufacturers tag on the front slam panel is a painted/printed tag unlike a real tag. So, two non-original tags and drilled out production # are strong indicators of falsification. See this original windshield VIN tag: