New Engine Build: Starter will not turn it!

[Geneman]

Hello Peeps,
Just finished my >9 month build project. and finally got it installed in last few days.
it statredt with a nice low miles 88 carerra

the build is with all good stuff ..just a few notes..

3.2 to 3.4 P/Cs
98mm 10.5 comp
twin plug, trick heads by Xtreme , sl larger exh valves
Titanium LW valve train, RSR rockers etc
594/595 webcam.
tech3r crankfire and Clewett 46 mm ITBs /EFI

This was put together by some very experienced builders. it was my first time thru it..so i watched and did the grunt work for the long block/..but then assemble everything else and ut it in car in last few days.

I put it all together ( including original G50-lsd, KEP LW PPlate new to and sachs disc etc ) ans installed in car

HOWEVER.... now the starter will not turn the motor over!!. you can hear the starter gear engage ring gear. ( solenoid is working etc) but would not turn it. just in case , i replaced with brand new starter today. i also jumped the starter directly from a new fully charged battery with heavy duty jumper cables. still no go. there is major amps getting there as the cables are hissing , CONTACTS TURNING RED etc.!

so i removed the complete engine and trans again today just to see if anything in the trans clutch is binding .. no problems obvious.

so then i removed 1 plug from each cyl, .. and now it cranks with starter fine..

should this be happening? there is no oil in engine except for the assembly lube we used liberally. when it is cranking there are no obvious mechanically bad sounds.. so does not seem that anything is clashing in there.

i was thinking of rigging up a temporary oil feed and return , and then crank the crap out of it with the starter to get it well lubed up . will this help?

thanks for your comments

frank... see pics:

note son standing by with the fire extinguisher ..no confidence in dad...

[john walker's workshop]

trans to body ground strap hooked up? and why are you cranking it with no oil in the engine?

[Bob Ashlock]

When it was all assembled in the car, could you turn the engine by hand using a wrench on the pulley? And, when you removed it from the car, but BEFORE you pulled the plugs was it crankable? If not, but then was crankable AFTER the plugs were pulled, it would seem that there is some kind of interference between pistons and plugs.

[Targalid]

Pretty engine! What happens if you put the other plugs in and take the first set out. Will it still turn over with the starter? It would be safer to turn it over by hand. with the crank pulley nut.

[Geneman]

thanks guys for the input

answers...

john. ..after engine-trans was put in, i filled external oil tank and was planning to crank for a bit ( without ignition on) so i could preload the engine with oil before firing it up. thats when i discovered it would not rotate with the starter motor. so i was not cranking with no oil in the beginning. the ground strap was fine. i also bypased this by connecting battery directly to starter. and using an external switch across the solenoid. so the issue is not grd.

bob. when all assembled in car, i could not check to see if crank would turn with wrench because that big mounting plate precludes getting a wrench on it. i could get a wrench on te crank bolt but only for about 1/4-1/8th turn .. it was hard to crank.

when i pulled the motor, with plugs still in, i removed the mounting plate , and , using a big torque wrench, i could get it to move but it was very hard. this was tested with plugs in and trans still connected. eve though it was hard to do, i could rotate it pretty much thru full cycle .. so it does not seem anything is hitting.

however, when i removed the top 6 plugs, it was very free rotating with either starter or hand crank. this was with the trans still attached. so there does not seem to be any hangup in the trans or clutch. it did not matter if trans was in gear or in neutral,, rotated fine.

targa thanks!! did not check the other plugs yet ..will do that tomorrow.

thanks frank

[docrodg]

It is quite possible that you just have a high compression engine that is very "tight". If it rotated fine with the top plugs out then I would doubt there is an interference issue with the top plugs (factory plug location, fairly common upgrade, so should be fine) but check that anyway. I would continue to check everything else and ensure that the valves etc. are adjusted properly.

Finally remove all plugs and only install 2 back on one cylinder and see how it changes the torque required to spin it. If it spins great until that cylinder is on compression stroke then it is hard and you know there are no interferences you will know that you just have a tight motor. There is a possibility that your starter is worn and weak or you just need a high torque starter.

[Geneman]

Thanks doc .. Indeed that is what i think is happening just very tight. I am re checking all plugs for interference. So my thought is that getting some oil in there by running it with the starter motor (without plugs in) , and gettting some oil distributed should loosen it up to where the starter can spin it. I am also borrowing someone elses hi torque starter to try. Will report thanks frank

[boyt911sc]

Geneman,

I recently built a very similar engine set-up like yours for local buddy using an 3.0 liter SC engine instead of a 3.2 Carrera. It was very difficult to crank doing the valve adjustment and was worried it might have problem starting. The owner replaced the original starter and switched to a smaller high torque starter. It is running now and in the dyno shop. Excited to get the dyno result. Engine still needs some tuning work. Why would even think of cranking the engine without engine oil? What's the point?

Tony

[Geneman]

tony i just put a high torque starter on. ( a loaner from Andrew: ONQracing) It still will not turn that sucker. I am taking the trans and clutch assembly off tomorrow to see if something binding. stay tuned frank

[john walker's workshop]

is the release fork engaged into the throwout bearing or jammed behind it?