Has anyone resolved the Key not activating the Starter 83 and Below 911?

[Vincent Hill]

I have an 1982 811 SC. This problem has now gotten a Lot Worse. It used to be every now and then and now it is most of the time! I installed a Mechanical Starter Button hooked direclty to the Solenoid on the Starter and can ALWAYS turn over the engine when the Key Fails! From looking at the Wiring it looks like the Yellow Wire on the Key switch goes back through the the Smugglers Box into a Relay for the AC and then Back to a Terminal on the Starter Solenoid. I do not have the Book in front of me but it is either Terminal 30 or 50??

Has anyone had and resolved this problem? Did they need to replace the Relay in the Smugglers Box or was it a Broken or Frayed Wire?

It has gotten to the Point that My wife does not want to drive the car and that is as bad as it gets!!

[964TargaC2]

Yellow wire is #30, I finally resolved my no start by running a new one, never could find where the old one was broken ..

[Vincent Hill]

All of the way back to the Switch?? By that I am asking
"Where" did you join the New wire? ( Between the Switch and Firewall? Or Somewhere in the Trunk?) thanks for your fast reply. I KNOW it was Hard to not find / see the problem and "Just" Fix it!!

[Bob Kontak]

Hi Vince,

Yellow wire starts at ignition term #50 and travels to terminal #87 on the fuel pump relay. Then travels to terminal 50 on the starter solenoid.

In pic below the yellow wire also feeds the heater ventilator switch. Don't understand why but there is still, effectively, a straight shot to the starter from the key.

These can all be tested with a simple continuity test. Well, if simple is laying under the car checking where it mates with the starter from the FP relay.



Does this help?

[Bob Kontak]

You can see the little terminal numbers on the back of the relay if you get the reading glasses on.

Pull it out. It's the closest relay to the driver in the relay/fuse set on the inner fender.

[Vincent Hill]

Hi Vince,



Yellow wire starts at ignition term #50 and travels to terminal #87 on the fuel pump relay. Then travels to terminal 50 on the starter solenoid.



In pic below the yellow wire also feeds the heater ventilator switch. Don't understand why but there is still, effectively, a straight shot to the starter from the key.



These can all be tested with a simple continuity test. Well, if simple is laying under the car checking where it mates with the starter from the FP relay.







Does this help?

Of course it does!! Super great to hear from you!! I just found a new tester that has a 12 foot cord. I will let you know how the testing went. I guess the wires go through the Tunnel to the starter and if I need to replace it that is the route I will take! BTW, just bought a house in Fla st Petersburg. Retiring this year and Peggy around August 2014 then we are there forever.

[Vincent Hill]

You can see the little terminal numbers on the back of the relay if you get the reading glasses on.



Pull it out. It's the closest relay to the driver in the relay/fuse set on the inner fender.

Not to mention it is RED!!

[Bob Kontak]

Hey Vince!

As soon as I would say red, it would be black or all of them red. :-)

On the newer (to 1989) 930's and maybe the Carreras they are all red. Something to do with defeating electrical flow in more than one direction.

If Peggy turns the key to start and you lift the air flow sensor a half inch you should hear the fuel pump start spinning. That will tell you the relay is good AND that the ign switch is functional AND that the yellow wire is happy at least to the relay in the front trunk.

After that go to the 14 pin connector in the far rear of the engine compartment on drivers side (left side) Bust it open. Terminal number one is the yellow wire (little numbers - reading glasses) . Check for corrosion and continuity between this connection and the FP relay #87 hole and then check continuity to the starter / solenoid terminal 50. This will thin down the work load if a separate break exists.

When you start testing continuity I would disconnect battery. You can get whapped at starter with the big fat wire as you know when sticking probes, etc up in there.

Also, when trying to start with Peggy or helper make sure the car is out of gear especially if you are standing behind.

You are in your 40's now and you can't jump as fast as in the way back.

Here is the pic of the connection point. This could easily be the issue (me thinks).

[Peter Zimmermann]

If memory serves me, there is also a connection point on the trunk floor, under/near the front (trunk side) of the instruments. Pull the carpet back, remove the cardboard panel and search the area between the rear of the brake booster and the instruments. It's a bit of a ***** to get at, you'll have to remove the plastic accordian hose from the fresh air mixing box, and probably have to remove the smaller diameter paper hose just under the larger plastic hose. Then you should be able to locate the terminal 50 yellow wire, including the branch wire that goes off to the FP relay - this is terminal "T1e" in the current flow chart above.

This is where most kill/no start alarm devices are located/wired. (The smaller yellow wire to the FP relay is usually interrupted between this area and the relay, also for fuel shut off alarm installs). The next terminal, as I remember it, is the 14 pin connector mentioned. This is in the left rear corner of the engine compartment, and the 50 wire goes from there to the starter solenoid.

I can't remember if your model still has the A/C relay in the smugglers box, the above current flow chart ignores A/C. If it does have the A/C relay, there might be two in-line connectors at T1e for the terminal 50 wire, each with a branch wire. Sorry, it's been more than twenty years since I've looked at those circuits - just a little foggy!

[boyt911sc]

Vincent,

Bob K. has given you a very good advise and direction to go. If I were in your shoes, I would check first the 14-pin connector and look for terminal #1. Check the chassis side and the engine side connections. If you are getting power at terminal #1 at the chassis side, proceed the test toward the engine side to the starter. You could actually connect a test light at the starter (yellow wire terminal) and observe the light when cranking. It will tell you whether power is delivered to this point without guessing!!!! Keep us posted.

Tony

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann

Then you should be able to locate the terminal 50 yellow wire, including the branch wire that goes off to the FP relay - this is terminal "T1e" in the current flow chart above.

Good info. One more focus point that few know about.

[Vincent Hill]

WOW!! This Has to be my Birthday! Even I understand most of this and "Immediately" as in tonight I will clean the 14 Pin Connector and see what I got! NEVER thought about looking at it

Sorry Bob, that Last Diagram did not do it for me! I can Guess that Fuse 23 is the one by the Fuel Pump Relay but I do not understand what anything else is all about?? and next Month it will be a 70 Year Old Man trying to Jump out of the way!

[Peter Zimmermann]

When you open the 14-pin connector, use great care to not crack/break its lid/top! It will be a bit brittle, and you will see, along it's long sides, how it clamps closed. Use a thin, flat-blade screwdriver to open it by prying very gently where the top seats along the long sides. Hold the harness in a way that you don't lose all the wires when you remove the connector's top, they are loose in there and can fall out! Remove that top slowly!

[Bob Kontak]

Vince,

Sorry about the confusion. The "yellow wire" or "Terminal 50 wire" (see Peter Z's comment) wire is such an important element in the running of the car that I am speaking of it in generic terms.

My diagrams above are meant to highlight the path of the the yellow wire and the terminal connection points that may be problem areas. Forget the fuses and forget the proximity of one part to another.

Trying to look up your phone number and I will give you a call.

[Vincent Hill]

AMEN!! To Mr. Zimmerman!! The most Dangerous thing is to let the wires fall out or to damage the cap. I am Fully Experienced in what can happen and to REALLY be careful. This happend to me when I was dealing with the Ignition Switch and Payed Hell for it. Thanks.

[Vincent Hill]

"TO EVERYONE, THANK YOU"!! Problem Resolved!! as "Soon" as I cleaned the 14 pin Connector AND used the Copper anti seize grease I almost cannot turn the key back fast enough because it now starts so fast!!

I guess this all comes under the KISS formula. Keep it Simple Stupid!!

[Bob Kontak]

Cool beans, Vince!

[Vincent Hill]

Cool beans, Vince!

Thanks for the Hand Holding. Knowledge IS Power!!

[86 ssinit]

Hey Vincent I seem to have this same problem. Just checking this is the 14pin connector you cleaned.
Did you open it up like I did in pic. Or did you open the case that plugs into the fuse block??. I'm trying all the easy ways first before I get out there with a tester. I opened this up and cleaned both sides with contact cleaner but nothing changed. Thanks Tom

[Bob Kontak]

Only one 14 pin connector in engine bay. There is a 12 pin near the drivers side shock mount on the back wall.

Get out there with a tester and a pal and check the #1 terminal.