Axle shafts

[michael lang]

I'm about to send my car to the body shop for repair. While it's there I'll be performing some other upgrade which means the drivetrain will be out of the car. My question really pertains to the axle shafts. Do I leave them bolted to the trailing arm just hanging there or is it better to pull them out as well while it is at the body shop? As a follow up question, if the axle shafts are out as well, what is the best way to protect or seal off the opening in the trailing arm end where there the axle shaft will connect to? I'm sure it can't be good for the rear wheel bearings being exposed can be a goog thing in a body shop.
Thanks

[Classic]

Mike,

I'd take them off, if you just leave them hanging you'll damage the flange under the boot.

To protect them just put a bag over them to prevent anything getting in them.

Whilst they're out it's a good time to clean and repack them anyway.

Tony

[GH85Carrera]

With a Carrera the ends of the CV joint are covered and sealed. Just a loop of wire or a LONG cable tie works great. I prefer a long cable tie because it is easy to put on and adjust to the right height. If you are thinking of re-packing them just replace them with new instead. For pushing it around the shop that is all you need. If you want to move it to a different place you will need a flat bed tow of course.

To get the axle nut off you need a GOOD impact wrench or a 3 foot bar. Loosen the nut before you drop the engine. Getting it torqued back down needs a 3 foot bar.

[Chuck.H]

I'd remove them - it makes getting the engine/trans back in easier also, and as some have said a good time to repack them. BTW, the boot repack kit HAS to be the most affordable Porsche part EVER, IIRC it's like under $10 complete.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 362k miles

[porterdog]

I had a string of A2 VW's when I was in school and it was recommended to me that they never be rolled about with no axles installed, ostensibly because the bearing depended on the presence of the splined stub for rigidity and could be subject to damaging stress if loaded without it.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by porterdog

I had a string of A2 VW's when I was in school and it was recommended to me that they never be rolled about with no axles installed, ostensibly because the bearing depended on the presence of the splined stub for rigidity and could be subject to damaging stress if loaded without it.

There is that as well. One of my friends that has a shop has a pair of axle stubs he puts in place of CV joints if he removes them and moves the car around.

[michael lang]

porter dog, that is also a concern I have. I don't know if the wheel bearings or hub would be damaged by there being an open space in the hub. I'd like to have the axle shafts out since the car will be gone for several months this will be the most opportune time to do some maintenance items. Now the question is, if the hub/wheel bearing is susceptible to damage with the axle shaft out when the car is rolled around, what can I put in its place that won't cost a ton of money?

[jrsully]

inquiring a little bit more on this and being year specific. Have a 71 T and the drive train (and axels) are out/removed. Planned to just roll the car around with the exposed wheel/axel flanges (hubs) in place. Plan to seal off the exposed flanges/hubs with plastic bags. Am I risking damage doing this.? Thx in advance

[Chuck.H]

Originally Posted by michael lang

porter dog, that is also a concern I have. I don't know if the wheel bearings or hub would be damaged by there being an open space in the hub. I'd like to have the axle shafts out since the car will be gone for several months this will be the most opportune time to do some maintenance items. Now the question is, if the hub/wheel bearing is susceptible to damage with the axle shaft out when the car is rolled around, what can I put in its place that won't cost a ton of money?

Sorry I'm not sure if your 89 is different from my 89 TurboLook - on my car, when I remove the 'axle shafts' (the shaft between the CV joints) I do this by unbolting the hex bolts that hold the CV joints to the trans and to the inside hub of the rear trailing arm. This doesn't leave any bearing unsupported, or even 'hollow'... but like I said, maybe the designs are different?

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 362k miles

[CCM911]

I am really stupid this morning. I see that Mike's car is an 89/G50. In any case, 915 owners could take heed of the comments below.

Not all Carrera CV joints are sealed at the end. If Mike has a 915 they are most likely open at the trans end.

Mike, when I drop my engine, the first thing I do after disconnecting the shafts from the transmission flanges is to take a baggie, and zip-tie it on the exposed end of the shaft.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

With a Carrera the ends of the CV joint are covered and sealed.

[GH85Carrera]

Mike's car is a 89.
My 85 has sealed CV joints on the transmission side.
I figured they were still sealed on a G-50 car. I don't know that for sure.

[CCM911]

So are you saying that I can get the sealed ones for my 1984? That would be awesome!!!

I hate the fact that the open ones just hang there trying to fall apart.

And MIKE - Get those shafts removed ASAP. I guarantee the body shop will damage them. Think of the removal as "Cheap Insurance".

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Mike's car is a 89.
My 85 has sealed CV joints on the transmission side.
I figured they were still sealed on a G-50 car. I don't know that for sure.

[GH85Carrera]

Actually as I remember the 84 & later 85 Carraras had a few small differences. The front struts and the CV joints. My car is a late 85 model. I wish I had the memory of Bruce Anderson and could remember all the differences. I am sure you can dig around on the site and find the answer.

Porsche made constant little changes even in the middle of a production year.

[RWebb]

you can use baling wire to keep them where they should be & put bags over them for protection, but... how many miles since they were last inspected/rebuilt?

you can always pull them & rebuild prophylactically if they are high mileage or say the grease if > 5 years old

[Walt Fricke]

Like most, I get a bit confused trying to remember which year had what detail.

So for Mike (and everyone else), things are actually kind of simple. Just look at the wheel side CV. If it has bolts holding it to the flange out by the wheel, if you are conservative undo the bolts and pull the whole axle assembly. You don't have to worry about the wheel bearing, as it won't be affected. You don't even have to bag or otherwise protect it, because the wheel bearing is suitably sealed as it is. The most you might want to do is clean off the grease on the flange, to keep it from getting on something along the way.

Or you use wires of some sort to hold the whole axle up, and bag the inner CV.

On the other hand, for some models Porsche friction welded the outer CV to the flange, whose center part extends through the bearing, and is held on with that nut which requires such large torque to remove or tighten. The only way (at least the only practical way) to remove the axle is to remove the nut and pull the whole assembly out. Easier, really, than fussing with six bolts way back in the aluminum banana.

But that leaves the bearing, whose parts are designed to stay where they belong by being clamped together by this flange and nut and the other stuff in the sandwich, at risk.

So either you leave the axle on, holding it up so it rotates sort of around its usual axis when the car is rolled around. Or you acquire a spare pair of flanges (from a different model car) to install there and add the big nut and tighten some (no need to use factory torque, and good reasons not to go that far). Or you make something out of large stiff washers and threaded rods so that the outer flange (the thing with the wheel studs or lug nut holes) is firmly squeezed together with the inside (transmission side) inner bearing race. That will keep the two outer bearing races from getting out of place. They can't go far, as the bearing itself is held in with a plate held on with 4 bolts of its own. But the outer flange, without more, is only held in by friction to an inner race. And that must be what worries responsible shop owners.

[michael lang]

The set up on the car is very basic. 6 bolts on the trans side and 1 very large (32mm) nut on the trailing arm side. That's not what i'm worried about because I take the axle shafts out every off season and swap them left to right. I feel like after a season of DE pounding it helps to prolong their life. They have sealed CVs so I'm not concerned about the CVs coming apart or needing to be rebuilt because of all the maintenance I do on the car. The issue is, I am concerned about the rear hub bearings being exposed while the car is at the body shop or since there will be no spline in the space where the CV normally would be, will the hub bearings get damaged when the car is being rolled as the shop needs to move the car. So I think a better question is, do I leave the hub open & exposed in the trailing arm or do I find something to fill the space and close it off to protect the inside of the hub or prevent the wheel bearings from damage as the car is rolled around?

[bazar01]

Originally Posted by michael lang

The set up on the car is very basic. 6 bolts on the trans side and 1 very large (32mm) nut on the trailing arm side. That's not what i'm worried about because I take the axle shafts out every off season and swap them left to right. I feel like after a season of DE pounding it helps to prolong their life. They have sealed CVs so I'm not concerned about the CVs coming apart or needing to be rebuilt because of all the maintenance I do on the car. The issue is, I am concerned about the rear hub bearings being exposed while the car is at the body shop or since there will be no spline in the space where the CV normally would be, will the hub bearings get damaged when the car is being rolled as the shop needs to move the car. So I think a better question is, do I leave the hub open & exposed in the trailing arm or do I find something to fill the space and close it off to protect the inside of the hub or prevent the wheel bearings from damage as the car is rolled around?

If your splined axle has the 32mm nut on the trailing arm side, do not remove the axle. The axle nut puts the necessary pre load on the split inner races on the wheel bearing. You will damage the bearing without the pre load. It is not the exposure that will damage but the absence of the axle and the 32mm nut while the car is being rolled around.

[michael lang]

Thanks bazar. Now the question becomes, what could I do to remove the axle shafts and put something it's place to prevent the wheel bearings from being damaged?

[Dodge Man]

Originally Posted by RWebb

you can use baling wire to keep them where they should be & put bags over them for protection, but... how many miles since they were last inspected/rebuilt?

you can always pull them & rebuild prophylactically if they are high mileage or say the grease if > 5 years old

Look at the replacement 1/2 shafts since the motor & trans is out. The replacement 1/2 shafts are new and remove the old part failure worries. If you have over 100K miles then this is worth a look. I run the Carrera(Loebro) axles that fit the old large BC(73'ish) and later Carrera BC. Check the PET because the factory grease cups(tins) are not attached and you will need to put back the axle bolts & some new 10mm nuts to secure the grease cup tins & keep the CVs clean. IME Body shops have severe dust & debris floating around. IMHO At a body shop you have to secure the grease tins to keep all of the dust out of your CVs if you do not remove the axles. Pulling the axles to inspect & repack/replace the CVs is the best course. The new Pelican axles were less expensive than replacing a single CV on my 73. Best of luck.

[Walt Fricke]

Buy some allthread rod and nuts and some big SAE grade washers. Cut the rod so it fits where the splined shaft did, and sticks out on each end. Add washers and nuts, and tighten the nuts. That should hold the bearing halves together enough that just rolling the car around - no G loading - won't cause a problem. Or just leave the shafts in and tie them up with wire so they can rotate. That's not really a problem either.