How do you replace the seal between the body and engine tin?
 

My engine is out and the rubber seal that seals the gap between the body and the engine tin is stiff and torn. Replacement seals are not too expensive.

What is the right way to install the new seals? It looks like there is a groove the seal fits into. But what hold the seal in? Do I have to remove clips or something? Is there a particular order?

I searched for related threads, but I could not find anything. Help would be appreciated.

The seals fit in the groove no adhesive necessary. I use tire lube and a plastic flat bar used for interior work to push the seals in place it's a real pain and takes patience and strong fingers.

Wear gloves!!!

I have never installed the engine seals. I don't have tire lube, but bet it works nicely.

On the big fat long rubber pieces that fit in the rocker panels, the factory says to use glycerin. I have used KY and that works well.

I also drop the strips in hot water for 15 minutes to soften them up. No problems - still a pain - but just grunt work.

The long strips push in from one end in my scenario. The more I think about you don't have that option in the engine compartment so the interior tool k mentions may be the trick.

So, it has to flex to get in the groove.

Is it one piece, folded in half? Or is it two flaps bonded to a round bead?

Flat tool for interior? Can I get that at the local parts store?

BTW, thanks for the fast replies!

Indeed it does! :D

From our host Pelican Parts - Product Information: PEL-TOL-ST9007

Thanks for the tool link.

It's a rubber extrusion. Two flaps with kind of a bead along one edge that keys into the sheetmetal.

One tip, the 3 cars I have done these on all had the ends of the metal channel staked after the rubber was installed.
You will want to slightly open up the metal at the end(s) to let the new seal slide in.

I used large channel lock pliers to lightly re-stake/crimp after the new seal was installed.

If anything, make the seals a little long as they will shrink some over time.

Cooper

There are two seals; a short one in the front that attaches under the cross member, and a longer one that forms a U-Shape along the sides and above the muffler.

Each seal is one piece that is split to straddle the engine tin. See photo for a cross-sectional view.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385357577.jpg

Yes, our local version of HF sell them @ $5. $2.50 when on sale.

Take the time to straighten out any dents in the channels that the seal go into and clean the channel of any debris before starting and the seals will go in. It gets more difficult as you go as you have to pull the seal all the way though, it just takes a little time. As mentioned gloves are a good idea, there are a lot of sharp edges in there.

When you say, "straddle the engine tin", do you mean one flap on top, and the other one under the tin edge? That makes sense, but that was not how mine looked when i removed the engine. Engine had been pulled out by the PO.

That is the way.

Excellent. Now i can plan on doing this right. With new, flexible rubber, getting the flap under the tin has to be easier than 32 yr old rubber.

Cooper, I just looked, and:
1) mine are crimped about 1" on each end,
2) AND the seal extendeds about 1/2" past the metal channel.
3) Looks like they added a little bit of black mastic to seal the corner where the two seals meet together

Only about 1/2 of the firewall seal was properly installed. The rest had both seal flaps stiining on top of the engine tin.

If your seals are original you will likely find that there won't be much remaining to the rubber flap on the outside of the tin in the section above the muffler. The heat from the muffler destroys the rubber. When I replaced mine, what remained of that section mostly crumbled when I went to remove it.

Interestingly, the new replacement seal I purchased had the right half of the outer flap above the muffler (the section exposed to the heat) cut out (see photo). Perhaps this was causing an issue (burning rubber?) so they decided to simply remove that section, but it seems that of all places to seal, this is where you would want a good seal to avoid sucking in hot air to cool the engine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385439513.jpg

I just did mine on my project. A brand new Porsche seal. There is one short part that goes towards the firewall and one long part, that goes the other 3/4 of the way. I did not use any glue or lubrication. Just put the lower part of the rubber ind the lower part of the u-shaped shin. Then I used a piece of shaped wood to press the top part in. It took me half an hour to do it all. No problem at all. No need to cut it in pieces. The rubber was about 1 inch too long, so I cut a bit off, when I reached the finish were the two halfes meet.

Good luck

/Christian

Christian,

Did your new seal have a section cut out of it as shown in the picture I posted? The seal shown was purchased new and installed quite a while ago (I think the late 1980s), and I wonder if the seals sold now still have this section of the outer flap missing. I would prefer to have both flaps run the entire length (as was originally on my car).

Hey Frank,

No, there was nothing cut off. It was the same all the way around. I bought mine at a Porsche dealer the other week.

Thanks. I was just getting ready to put my old seal back in, but the price of a new OEM seal is reasonable enough to justify replacement.

I should note that perhaps the material used on the replacement seal is improved over the original, because the rubber on the 20+ year old replacement - even over the muffler - still looks almost new and is very flexible.

Is your muffler on the right side?

For the 1974-89 models the is 2 version; NA and Turbo. Maybe one of them has a cutout?

Just looked at my original seal, and that section is missing. This seems to be normal, from the factory.

I first thought it was damaged, but upon a closer examination, the cutout has nice square corners. This does not happen by chance. This was intentional.

Thanks for pointing this out. Saves other people from getting upset, when the new seal comes in, and has the cutout.

Not sure why it is there. Muffler is full length...

My $0.02.

The seal below is a 930 seal. I believe the 911 seal does not have that cutout. There are different part numbers for 911 and 930 seals and I believe that cutout is the difference between the two seals.

The cutout goes above the turbo. I guess they did that to minimize melting the seal above the turbo.

Scott,
That would make perfect sense, however I just looked on PET and Pelican and see only one part number (911-504-111-02) listed for both 911s and 930s. Were these different at some point? Perhaps the two parts were superseded recently to a single part in an effort to reduce SKUs and inventory? And maybe what you get from the dealer is different from the OEM supplier?

Danish Dynamite said he obtained his from the dealer and it did not have the cutout. Hmmm, makes me wonder what I will receive if I order the OEM part.

VRF750,
From your signature it does not appear that your car is a 930, but you mentioned your old seal does have the cutout. Any chance the seal was already changed at some point in the past?

I take that back, the 930 number on Pelican is 930-504-170-01. Strange, on PET it shows the 911 part number.

Ok, I was looking at the 76-77 3.0L 930 PET catalog, which lists the 911-504-111-02 part. When I switch to any of the PET catalogs that include the 3.3L 930s, separate 911 and 930 part numbers are listed.

So it appears the 911 part number was used on the 3.0 liter 930s, but changed to the 930 part number (with the cutout) for the 3.3 liter cars. Is the turbo in a different location on the 3.3L cars?

The turbo is in the same location for the 3.0s and 3.3s, but the reason for the cutout on the 3.3, 930 rubber seal is that the catalytic converter, which was installed at some point on the 3.3s, is on the right side, above the muffler, and almost touches the bottom side of the engine tin (it runs left to right - parallel to the muffler). The cutout section is not above the turbo as the turbo is on the left and the cutout is on the right.

One other bit of possibly interesting info is, that it is good to use the cutout version on a 930, even with the cat removed (like mine is) because most aftermarket mufflers then go in the space that the cat occupied and are very close to the engine tin.

frankc,

The seal may have been replaced before. Hard to tell. Yes my car is a SC, so I do not have that issue of the CAT being right there.

But oddly, I have a hard wear spot on the tin, that goes all the way through the tin, on the RHS. It is not rust. There is a taper to the edge of the hole. Any chance the large SC muffler contacted this location?

Theory: since the muffler is a 1 in 1 out, and hard mounted on the left to the CAT, maybe the RHS of the muffler gets tipped upwards during operation, and gets very close to the rubber.

Maybe that is why Porsche went to the cutout, to get clearance to the tilting muffler.

Theory CONFIRMED

The SC has the cutout, because the muffler would be too close to the seal and potentially burn it.

Here is the wear on the muffler and tin, that confirms the close proximity of the muffler.

The cutout makes sense for the 1975 and on cars, because they had the 1-in style muffler. With SSI and a 2-in muffler, I could go to the full seal.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1385561949.jpg

This might also explain why the rear tin is only rusty on this side. The heat from the muffler probably burned off the paint, rust happens....

While the 3.2 does not come close enough, my SC body has the one with the cutout.

Sorry to bring this topic back, but I ordered a new seal 911.504.111.02 from our host because I wanted one without the cut-out section. It arrived today and it has the cut-out! I guess I will be returning it, but what do I order instead?

Has anyone ordered one of these recently and it not have the cut-out? I am wondering if it has to do with the "OEM' vs. genuine Porsche part (I ordered the "OEM").

Can both seals be replaced without dropping the engine?

While on the topic of seals, how have you dealt with the pieces of tar impregnated foam that are stuffed between the back (towards the front of the car) wall of the engine bay and the support for the rear shocks? Mine were very nasty. Does anyone offer replacements? I would think that a better (cleaner) solution might be to glue something like the rubber seal that is the subject of this thread into the gap. Or -- a strip of garage door bottom sealer rubber.

Bought 2, never used them... Pelican Parts - European Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche • BMW • Mercedes • Volkswagen • Audi • Saab • Volvo • MINI

He is a thread about peplacement: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/597010-engine-bay-foam-inserts.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1410201396.jpg

I assume that these seals cannot be replaced without dropping the engine?

Thanks.

Thanks JJ.

Brad

Anyone?

Anything is possible...
 

LenS:

The seal that is being referred to is one which seals the engine tin to the body. Can it be replaced without a full drop?

Maybe. However, I can say that you would have to be a contortionist with very flexible hands and a creative approach to pull this off, because getting the new "U" shaped seal will be in a very tight area where you will come in contact with the rear engine bar, the blower motor for the heat (if your car is equipped) and the exhaust ... and that is on the left side only! On the right side, you're going to have a little more room - if you have a CIS engine...but this job will be very tough if you do not have the engine out of the car.

Now, speaking in terms of a better approach? A partial drop MAY be a possibility. There again, your hands are going to have to be rather flexible to get the one near the fire wall installed.

This is a job that is best done when your engine is out; and I had to replace a chunk of the rail that holds the seal in. Good luck!