Suspension upgrade list

[Leland Pate]

It's time for me to face facts... my suspension is old, worn and out of whack.

Here is my list of suspension goodies that I'm going to be saving towards...

I searched the archives looking for something similar to what I want but found nothing.

Basically i'm looking for an aggressive street setup that does fairly well on the track.

Are these sizes correct for that i'm looking for?

Here is my list:
Please comment on any thing else you can think of that I may be missing...

Weltmeister 22mm Front Sway Bar Kit, 911/912 (1965-89)

Weltmeister 22mm Rear Sway Bar Kit, 911 (1987-89)

Neatrix Rear Spring Plate Bushing Kit

A-arm Rear Bushing, 2 req per car, 911 - 911 Turbo (1968-89)

A-arm Front Bushing, 2 req per car, each, 911/912/911 Turbo (1968-89)

Front Pair Sport Bilsteins for 911/912, 911 Turbo

Rear Pair Sport Bilsteins for 911, 911 Turbo

21mm Front Sway-A-Way, 911/912 (1965-89), 911 Turbo (1976-89)

27mm Rear Sway-A-Way, 911/912 (1965-89), 911 Turbo (1976-89)

What do you guys think???

[surflvr911sc]

Your list looks an awful lot like my project list! Well, half of it anyway. Here is the thread when I was asking for input. I haven't done them yet but I'm probably going w/ most of Paul's suspension suggestions. Here

[Superman]

Now you're talking. I agree with the Sway Away hollow torsion bars, they are strongly recommended among our local hotshots. I agree with the Bilstein Sports in the rear, but the popular setup matches these with the Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks in the front. I'd suggest this, since too-stiff front shocks can be pretty annoying. I am not a big fan of sway bars, though I may be in the minority here. I think of them as a band-aid for cars with too soft suspension. I think you can go 28 or 29 or even 30 mm bars in the rear, and avoid the sway bar thing. Neatrix bushings are a good choice for you, or me.

[pbs911]

I second the HD Bilstein fronts and larger than 27 rear torsion bars. You may want to replace the sway bar bushings with poly type. A little harder and no noise. If your cars lowered to 25.5 in front or lower you may want to consider the bump stear kit (drop link is your best bet and on my list)

I also heard that the hollow torsion bars do not have the same tension rating as the solid, so you would want a little thicker. I don't know exactly, but a maybe someone will chime in.

Did you get the tie rod situation worked out?

[GeorgeM]

I went with 21mm front and 29mm rear torsion bars on my Carerra and am very pleased with the results.

[Leland Pate]

I probably won't be able to tackle this right away. I do have a wedding to pay for this winter, but next year hopefully, I can reserve some funds to the suspension.

Now for the expected secondary questions:

Jim, I was actually looking at the solid T- bars... I just can't see the advantage offered by the hollow bars (weight) for my car. I'm not building a strictly track car... am I missing something? Are there any other advantages other than weight?

What is the difference between the sport Bilsteins and the HDs?
So, your suggesting sports in the back and HDs in the front?

Also, I see what your saying about using stiffer T-bars instead of sway bars... but I thought the whole idea of sway bars (like Weltmeister) is that you can adjust thenm front and rear to tweek the balance of the car... you can't do that with T-bars. ??

Paul,
I would have added Sway bar bushings to the list but it appears that the Weltm. jobs come with complete bushings.
I also have a bump steer kit that i've tried to install TWICE with no luck. I can't move the rack enough to get the spacers in... not even close... I'd have to shave about at least 1/3rd of their thickness to even be close.
I even loosened the steering rack shaft at the coupler in the smuggler trunk to no avail.

If your cars lowered to 25.5 in front or lower you may want to consider the bump stear kit (drop link is your best bet and on my list)

what do you mean by "drop links"?

George... are you also running stock sway bars?

[anthony]

If you are going to do all that you might want to install new ball joints and turbo tie rods.

[pbs911]

What do you mean by drop link kit

"ERP Bump Steer Correction Kits - 911's and 993's
You can mess around with raising the rack on your 911 to improve the bump steer curve with stock position spindles (and even then it is a compromise); but with this kit, you can leave the rack in place and adjust it much more easily (and in very small increments), at the spindle itself to really dial in the curve so it is correct at ride height. Driving a car that has the correct bump steer curve makes the difference between a nice steering car and an excellent steering car; one that is predictable and controllable under hard braking as well as through bumpy turns."

[ted]

Agree adjustable sway bars are very helpful for minor adjustments, even while at the track.
Changing T bars is time consuming and expensive.

Maybe lowered struts and adjustable spring plates would be nice too.

To get the most from your upgrades you might consider giving some Kumho Victor racers or similar DOT race tires a try at your next AX.

What's next brakes and cooling ducts?

[Leland Pate]

Anthony, the car already has Turbo tie rods ...twice.... don't ask.

Paul.... OOOOOhh! that makes sense... although they just flat out look expensive... how much does a kit like that run?

Ted,
I assumed the Bilstein sports were "lower" than the standard... I get confused between shocks...struts...etc.
Is it all just valving?


As soon as my budget permits, I'm looking at getting a second set of wheels for autocrosses... the only heartburn i have with that is it gets real expensive buying a new set of track tires every year.

[chrisp]

I have and will advise relative to your desire to street and track
use:

22mm Front sway bar. Good
18mm Rear sway bar. Get the 22mm. I am upgrading
22mm Front T-Bar. Good
28mm Rear T-bar. Good. I have an SC so you may want ot go
29mm
Neatrix bushing. Would do the same again. Poly is better but
supposedly very hard to install.
Monoball rear control arm bushing. I highly recommend these.
Bilstein Sport front. Go with HD or Smart racing special valving
Bilstein Sport rear. Go with HD or Smart racing valving
Plastic front a-arm bushings. Good. Make sure you re work them
to get them perfectly cylindrical.

Overall my car runs well both street and track. Mine is the G class PCA set up that guys were using 2-3 years ago. With the advent of better tires guys are going much stiffer for track use. There are better sway bars than Weltmeister and if you have the money get them. Hollow bars are somewhat overrated I think. I would say if you need the weight savings get them. My suspension if a complete unit off of a friends car. He went to the super stiff tbars, super large sway bars. He gained about .25 - .5 second on a one minute lap. But his is very un-streetable and I drive mine 5k miles a year on New England roads.

Lastly, do all of the work yourself. It's a 30-40 hour project but if you are mechanically inclined it will save you major money and you'll feel awesome about what you have just done, when you are done.

[cab83_750]

Does anybody have opinions about 'coils' in the back?

Does anyone have them currently? I will be 'testing' these soon. And yes, I am aware of possible reinforcements to the mounts?

HELP!!!!

[ted]

I don't have rear coils on my car.

What I've heard is that first you should spend your money on all the upgrades above. If you think you are at the limit of your T bar rear suspension and feel like you need to make rear T bar changes for different tracks then consider the rear coils.

Rear coils are much easier to change than torsion bars.

[KTL]

I'd recommend the torsion bars as well. This will make a big difference and you'll like it much more. I am very pleased with the results of my 22/29 Sander bars.

They're not expensive ($15 ea. at Pelican), but still don't forget to buy new rear spring plate bushing brackets. Mine were trashed, so yours are probably in need of replacement as well. Check out the before images of my web page and you'll see how bad that bushing cup looked.

Get another set of rough 6&7 Fuchs for the track. You know from frequenting the classifieds that you can find a fair set for $400-500. That $$$ is a steal for the quality of wheel you get. $500 will buy you junk in aftermarket wheels. Toyo Proxes RA-1 or Kumho seem like a good tire for the price (around $100 ea.) Not bad for a R-compound tire!

BTW, it's been said that coil-overs need a cage in the chassis to stiffen the firewall. That rear shock support was designed to handle the loading of the shock absorbers, not the weight of the car via spring support. Just what i've heard.............