Sources of leaks in '87 Carrera?

[alfisti]

Hi folks. When I bought the car a month ago, I knew there were leaks. It looked like the windshield was leaking, based on the moisture and condensation long the lower edge on the drivers side. Also the sunroof seals were just plain missing.

So I spent some time scrutinizing the forum and reshaped the corners of the windshield seal to hopefully stop the leaks there. I don't SEE anything coming in there when it's raining.

I also replaced all three sunroof seals, so theoretically, that's fine now. I also blew out the drains to make sure water could get out.

Now, with the car in the garage on a rainy day, almost instantly after starting out, the interior is very moist. It's almost like, the heater itself is blowing moisture inside the car. Is that even possible?!?!?

Assuming that's not happening, how can I chase down the possible leaks? I really want to drive this car every day, it should be able to handle being wet without getting humid inside. It was actually bad enough that the gauges and radio had surface condensation on them.

I turned off the heat and it seemed to improve - but then again, it may just have equalized with the humidity outside...???

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
-Glenn

[Jcslocum]

A smoke machine can detec small air leaks.

Where are you located? This change of weather in NY is making everything sweat.

[alfisti]

I am in central NJ. Still figuring out how to work the HVAC... But feels like it's not quite right.


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[Jcslocum]

There are specific threads on how to work the complicated and obtuse heating system.

You can search but I will look to see if I can find the bookmark.

[KTL]

Glenn,

I would strongly suggest you remove the windshield to address the leaking by replacing the windshield seal/gasket. Be sure to use a real Porsche gasket as the aftermarket ones are not very good in terms of fitment. Reason I say you should take out the windshield is because there is nowhere for the water to go when it leaks into the windshield channel. That means it just sits there until it can evaporate. If this situation has been going on for a very long time, you will probably find some rust in there and you'll want to arrest it before it gets any worse

The heating system would only have water in it if the heater tubes running thru the chassis have been compromised somehow. The heat comes from the exhaust system and runs thru the tubes. I suspect the dampness in the interior is from the lack of sunroof seals before. Take a look in the back seat floor area for dampness. The sunroof drain tubes will dump the water into the rear floor area most often. There are also tubes in the front of the sunroof frame that drain the water forward.

The ventilation system is sorta goofy for sure. Basically the way it works is the panel with the sliding levers is to direct where you want air to go. The two upper sliders are fan speed (obviously) and fresh air volume. Slide the fresh air to the right and you're allowing max outside air into the car. Slide it to the left and it's closing the vent and "recirculating" like you're accustomed to in a normal modern car.

The bottom two sliders dictate where cooled or heated air goes, up or down. If you look on the panel there are arrows at the far right & left of the panel. Move the slider all the way to one side and the air (hot or cold depending on whether you choose the red slider or the blue slider) will be directed to wherever that arrow points. Up arrow = windshield vent, down arrow = floor vents. To get air flowing out of the dashboard vents (center vents and side vents near ignition key & glove compartment) you need to operate the air conditioning controls on the center console by the gear shifter.

Does your car have automatic heating or manual Star Trek warp speed red handles by the parking brake?

The whole system is completely ridiculous, especially when you get into the front trunk and have to fiddle with the numerous cables and hoses. Definitely not one of the old 911's better features. The ventilation system is in my opinion w/out a doubt the biggest negative aspect of the 911.

[alfisti]

Thanks, I think I understand how the HVAC works.... Buy not so sure how it commonly breaks, and what the symptoms are.



For sure when I got the car it was wet inside, I removed all the carpeting (well, the mats, and folded up the carpet edges) and let it all dry. The carpeting in the car is now bone dry.... Even now after the moisture from the rain. It's tough to tell if the windshield is leaking, but in torrential rain, I have been feeling around the inside seal and haven't felt a drop.



I wonder if I haven't had the fresh air vents open a little, which let in the moisture. It will rain some more this week, I will know soon enough if that was it :-).



The car really needs a new windshield - but I was hoping to wait on that. It was obvious when I first got it that the windshield seal wasn't reaching to the corners, and it LOOKS like I fixed that. But who knows??



Thanks

-Glenn


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[alfisti]

P.s. Yes, I have the warp speed levers. The passenger one oddly won't go down all the way.


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[Jcslocum]

Here is some info on how the heat system works....




911 Auto Heat

[Jcslocum]

Originally Posted by alfisti

Thanks, I think I understand how the HVAC works.... Buy not so sure how it commonly breaks, and what the symptoms are.

Thanks

-Glenn

The most common failures are electrical. The BIG blower on top of the engine on the drivers side seizes up. This can be scrapped and the heat backdated. There are many threads on this or it can be replaced/fixed with a new motor. There is a recent thread on replacing the motor.

The other electrical issue is the foot-well blowers. Behind each kick panel by your ankles is a small blower. The also seize up and can be rebuilt/fixed too. There could also be an inline fuse blown, but if it's blown the motor is prolly shot. I revived 1 of these motors with a dose of WD-40. Be very careful of the fan itself. it's quite easy to crack.

On the pass side heat lever next to the e-brake handle there is a "reed" type of switch that controls some relay somewhere that has to do with the fans. It gets all gunky and corroded from spilled soda, coffee and cheerios. Pull the cover off and check it out and clean it.

The mechanical failures can be the cables that run to the flapper boxes up behind the engine. There are up high on the frame/body at the end of each heat exchanger hose. Those cables open or close the actual flow of hot air into the car and are what the levers inside the car open and close. When they are all the way down, the flap inside that you can see is close and the shutters that you can see are open., Pull them up and the shutters close and the flap is opened.

I hope this helps a bit.

[alfisti]

It does - thanks! I will take at loom at this stuff asap.


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[wayner]

Pop the fuel gauge out of its pod and check fro dampness. If so, windshield is leaking.
If not, it still may be leaking.

Another place to check is the front cowl seal where the hood and cowl meet. If it leaked there it drips right near your left foot

You can see from this thread the areas I am talking about.

Of course the other area is the rear glass leaking in to the parcel shelf and eventually don to the rear floor, making its way to the front.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads20/dash+rust1341332098.jpg

[Chuck.H]

>>The car really needs a new windshield - but I was hoping to wait on that.

Getting a new windshield was the BEST update I've done! I'm going to get a new one every 100k miles now, it's SO nice to not have the pits catching the glare.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 370k miles

[wayner]

I forgot to post the link to the thread that I started. Here it is:

why-windshield-trim-should-regular-maintenance-item.html

[alfisti]

Thanks, folks. This is helpful info. Jon, that's a different photo than I've seen before, and it does clear up a couple of things.

Thanks
-Glenn

[alfisti]

so it was raining again this morning, and with the fresh air vents closed, no moisture. After about 35 minutes though, the front side windows began to fog. I don't see any vents that aim for the side windows in particular - I guess I should just aim the side vents upward and turn the heat on?

Thanks
-Glenn