Why windshield trim should be a regular maintenance item.

[wayner]

When I was shopping for my car I looked at many cars, some good, some bad. I also followed threads here to see what to look for. Also, stopping in to see some at shops was helpful.

Here are two pictures that I collected that illustrate what can happen. I think if the windshield is pulled early, a bit of cleanup is done and then windshield and rear glass reinstalled once in a while, this wouldn't get as bad as these cars had.

A bit of water seeping in, getting observed by the matting and then sitting for years could cause this. Surely this can be prevented without having to keep you car locked up inside where you can't use it???

[wayner]

Update

Here is what a leak looks like at the rear corner where the water pools on the glass.

This was the result of a test after installing a brand new seal. (The seal was new but sat in a box for years before installation). A fresh one solved the problem

[wayner]

Here are some additional pictures that I have collected from other people's posts

First, the area of window frame and dash that tend to get it the worst

[wayner]

Where the water goes next.

Note the evidence of past corrosion in the area to the left near the wheel well.Your carpet will be wet in that area.
(of course any water that gets ont eh floor from any source will eventually end up in the peddle box, so that area can become bad form many sources).

[wayner]

Now moving to the back again, the path the water takes is across the parcel tray as shown in earlier pics, then settling in the rear seat are, before eventually making its way to the floor.

All this damage is going unnoticed, hidden by the damp underside of what might be an otherwise dry carpet, but if it is bad most likely the carpet is damp all the way through. My point is the that underside can remain damp after the surface has dried

Check your seals.

Note: from what I have observed and tested to be true, the dark grey primer in this person's picture (left and right sides) illustrates the path the water takes from the parcel tray to the seats.

I'm glad my car was saved before it got as far as the one in the picture. All that rot was from the leaks in the lower corners of the rear glass

[wayner]

Another picture that I collected, and a link to the repair thread.


Please check your seals and put an end to the carnage

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/733955-pillar-cowl-rust.html

[wayner]

Here is an excellent "how-to" thread by Jack Olsen on replacing the rear window and seal

Race Prep Backsliding -- Re-installing a rear windshield

[wayner]

I took this picture of an early car.
Here is where the water collects when the rear quarter windows seals leak.
Water runs off the roof, around the corner and straight into the car.

Collecting pictures of rusted cars is my new hobby

[KTL]

People who shortcut the window seal reinstallation should be flogged with a windsheld seal (rust covered)

I found every channel in my racecar with rust in it from a terrible prep job prior to repainting. Obviously the seals were out when the thing was painted, so why not spend the time to do a bit of prep work before painting it?! Probably because "who cares, it's a racecar" was the perspective.

[dshepp806]

Looking forward to hearing from my Painter on his works with prepping for such...key area, indeed!

BEST!

Doyle

[wayner]

I just did a water test on my own car with the 1/4 windows open a crack.
To see what would happen I poured water on the roof. In seconds this is where it ended up!

Note that I had already strategically left an open path in my sound deadening material so that nothing will soak up the water if I get caught in the rain one day.

My plan is to layer the next type of sound deadening material over this one, forming a bridge that will not interfere with this water path or sop up and retain the moisture.

I also just drilled a drain hole. If you look at the pictures above, you can see that water will make its own hole so I made one myself and coated the edges with POR15 so that it won't grow.

Consider it preventative maintenance, and my tests are my car's sacrifice to the greater good of all of your cars
NOTE: If you decide to drill your own drain hole, watch out for the battery cable under the right rear seat!

[Reiver]

Another good reason to lose all of that fiber/rubber sound deadening stuff while adding lightness.

[wayner]

Here is another example of the same rust path hidden under carpeting.

Notice the rot on the vertical surface at the front base of the rear seat (near the floor).

This is from water being held against that surface by carpet matting that wicked it up from the seat pod.

[wayner]

I ran another test.

My assumption has always been that the rear corners hold water and that is where the seepage comes from but, now I see that those 1/4 window seals may be as bad or worse.

Here is the rear window area that is susceptible (apparently it hold milk also...milk photographs better).

With my first seal I had a leak in this area. THe second attempt proved to be water tight (for now)

[wayner]

But then this!

[wayner]

The most surprising thing about the last picture is that the water didn't enter the car at the bottom of the glass. It entered midway down and trickled to the bottom!

The new seal along the side of the back window appears perfectly tight and snug but obviously not water tight.

It is hard to see in this picture but you can just make out the trickle, and you can see it accumulating towards the bottom corner along the edge where the glass meets the seal on the inside of the car.

The water first appears as a trickle about ten inches up from that lower point.

[wayner]

Another picture of a rusty dash on another car.

After seeing all of these cars in this condition and running my own tests, I am flabbergasted as to why anyone would recommend installing these seals dry without any sealant just because thats the way the factory did it before better materials came along.

I've even see the telltale rust signs on cars as new as 993s. My understanding is that they use a newer type seal but still installed dry.


Also note that the worst damage is at locations where the water migrates to due to the wicking of interior materials, not where the water initially enters.


This one is obviously not a 993

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Reiver

Another good reason to lose all of that fiber/rubber sound deadening stuff while adding lightness.

This is a conundrum.

On one hand, leave out all the interior materials so that water can not do so much damage and save the car, but on the other hand put something back in so that the noise doesn't do so much damage to the driver.

I wish I had never left mine out.

After only driving mine for a few weeks I developed tinnitus that won't go away, and I drove with ear plugs. I also fear that I have lost some hearing range because eventually the noise didn't bother me as much, but conversations now do when voices fall within that range.

Stupidest thing I ever did was drive without sound deadening.

[tirwin]

A couple of points worth noting...

If you see any cloudiness or haze in the corners of the windows, particularly the front windshield, that is a dead giveaway that you've got a water problem. Best to pull the window, address any rust and treat with POR15 to prevent future damage.

Also when you replace your seals, make sure you use the Porsche ones. The non-Porsche seals do not fit right, especially in the corners. When you see the two seals side by side, the difference is pretty clear. The Porsche seals are "fit" for the corners, meaning they have the angles bent properly. The non-Porsche seals are a single piece of extruded rubber that they just fuse the ends together. The result is they bunch and gather in the corners and don't lay flat. To put it another way, think of a pipe that is bent at 90 degrees versus a pipe that is bent with a mandrel bend.

[wayner]

Pelican also has listing for seals identified as OEM.

Do you know if those are the Porsche seals (or does the term original equipment mean something different in that listing)?

Thanks