Project Elephant, How much does it weigh?

[Chuck Moreland]

The RS fiberglass parts are on the car and the fitting is nearly complete. The parts all took a bit of work to get a proper fit. I read with envy about PBS911's experience with a "bolt on" hood.

Not the case here. It took trimming, bending, glassing, pushing, proding, pissing and moaning to get a good fit for each of the four parts. I still need to do a little more to get it all just right, and I haven't even started the paint prep yet.

Here are a few pictures:







The sun was bright so the black bits in shadow are a little hard to see. That's a standard RS front end.

The good news is the fat has been dropping off the car in big, beefy, moist chunks. Here is the tally (from memory and some are estimates):

FG Hood - 20 lbs
FG Front bumper - 20 lbs
FG Rear bumper - 18 lbs
FG Duck tail - 2 lbs
Battery - 40 lbs (had single, later style battery)
Spare tire - 25 lbs
Jack, toolkit - 15 lbs
Rear seat backs - 15 lbs
R seat sound pad - 25 lbs
engine sound pad - 5 lbs
Front skid plate - 7 lbs
Smuggler's lid - 3 lbs
Evap emissions/hose - 10 lbs
Rocker covers - 8 lbs

Total so far - 213 lbs

And this was a lightweight non-sunroof, no power coupe to start.

The difference is very noticable. The car is almost 10% lighter and it shows in every performance dimension - acceleration, braking, turning. The car feels very tossable.

Although the pictures don't really show it, the car's ride height is very high now. It looks like it's on it's way to Dakar.

Major weight savings still to come:

Racing shells - 50 lbs
Delete floor coating - 25 lbs
Aluminum trail arms - 8 lbs
Aluminum F member - 10 lbs

And unfortunately a few pounds will go back in for roll bar, oil cooling, and fire supression system.

When it's all said and done I should clock in around 2100 lbs, maybe a little less.

[Jack Olsen]

It will be light, but if you didn't weigh it before, you'll never be sure -- until it's on a scale you can trust.

My car has the same fg parts, aluminum trailing arms, etc. (Although I do have the engine sound pad, smuggler's lid and rocker covers). Still, my car is over 2400 pounds.

Granted, I've got AC and a big engine. But things like the front oil cooler and line to it aren't included in the base weight. Neither is the oil inside them.

It's a constant battle. I'm planning on fiberglass rear quarter panels and a Lexan rear window.

(And what's more, a DMV 'certified' scale reads mine at almost 2600 pounds. I say: never trust anything that's certified.)

Your car looks pretty awesome, by the way. Any decision on color?

[Chuck Moreland]

I haven't dropped the car on a scale, yet. But I did weigh most everything on my list so those numbers are pretty reliable.

I am basing my target on the POC GCR that lists the stock weight of a '73 T as 2315. If that number is accurate I should already be at 2100. I realize that different references will list different weights as stock, and different scales will report different weights.

Jack, If I remember right you've got some extras in your Cup Car (as in cup holders). Power windows, air, 3.6, 17 inch wheels, turbo brakes, sunroof, stereo, dual oil coolers, trans cooler, what did I forget. Oh yeah, cup holders

I figure the scales at willow springs will make a good reference. Where did you weigh your car?

[Jack Olsen]

I always re-read my posts on car weight and realize I sound like kind of a ninny. Your car will certainly be quite a bit lighter than mine.

Your reduction figures are accurate, of course, But I'd be surprised if most nearly-no-option 73T's out there would weigh in quite as low as 2315 pounds. Those factory weight starting points make for a lot of exaggerated claims on cars that have more in common with my option-laden beast than your stripped-to-its knickers donor tub.

My car came in much heavier than that 2315 figure, even with the old engine in it. Granted, I've got the cup holder. And power windows. And a sunroof. And an oil cooler. And a fair amount of leather. It adds up.

My most-trusted weight figure is from the corner balancing scales at Steve Alarcon's shop. I've never tried the Willow Springs scale.

[MMARSH]

Chuck

My 72 Which has 17inch wheels, the same fiberglass parts as you, lexan rear and side Quarter windows, full roll cage,aluminum trailing arms, B & B oil cooler in the front, lightweight RS carpet and Door panels, aluminum floorboards, a 3.4 motor w/ headears and a working sunroof weighed 2249 lbs when cornerbalanced. Other then the sunroof, anything not needed was removed. I have fiberglass fenders and lexan side windows that I will add at a later date. I would bet your car probably weights about 2200 lbs. by the time you add back the roll bar, fire system ect. My buddy removed his sunroof, motor and undertray and all that didn't weigh more then about 30-35 lbs. Post the numbers when you get it weighed.


BTW, the car is looking good.

[Chuck Moreland]

Well, my car isn't stripped out like Chris Streight's machine but it is definitely spartan.

I don't know what the true starting weight was. I haven't found two references that agree. The only thing that really matters is when it gets onto a trusted scale.

The current thinking is to go with Alpine White with red RS graphics. It's common, but it still looks good.

Plus I figure white is lighter than other colors, less pigment

[CamB]

I always see 1050 kg as the spec (I am pretty sure this is no aircon and probably no sunroof...). This is Chuck's 2310lb.

My '69T weighs 1050kg (corner balance scales like Thom's) with:

- std bodywork (all steel)
- std seats all round
- 15" wheels
- 1/2 tank gas
- no underseal or interior sound deadening, no engine pad, no door pockets
- wind up yer own windows
- one battery
- spare tyre in. extra set of torsion bars in trunk (whoops)
- ally trailing arms
- S front brakes

BUT, adding:

- aluminium cased engine
- aluminium 915
- external oil cooler

So take from that what you will, but I see another 100lb in Chuck's stuff which I haven't done an would take me to 2200 or so. I would believe the 3 items above weigh and extra 100lb (unfortunately)... It kinda ties in.

The basic guts of it is that no-one has a (verifiably) accurate enough scale... making this whole process a wee bit fruitless. I think it is pretty clear Chuck is going down the right path.

[MMARSH]

Personally, I think white w/ red graphics would suck. I wouldnt do it, terrible.

With the POC, you are supposed to have door panels and interior pieces so we will never be able to legally run a stripped out interior like Chris Streight's but I love the look of them like that.

[HawgRyder]

Chuck:
If weight is that important...perhaps you should consider filling the tires with Helium instead of air....might save several pounds. LOL
Bob

[pbs911]

Chuck:
Regardless of what the car weighed prior to the diet, you will still end up with a car that is over 200lbs lighter.

I read with envy about PBS911's experience with a "bolt on" hood.

I had probelms with the fitment of my rear bumper if that makes you feel better. The rear bumper cap took as long as the hood (15 minutes) and the front bumper cap fitment combined.

[Joeaksa]

Paul,

Whose glass parts did you use? 15 minutes fitting is a dream with some aftermarket parts!

Joe

[pbs911]

Joe. It was 15 minutes for the hood. That's how long it took to R&R the mounting bolts and the hood latch. The front bumper cap was a direct bolt on but I have to clamp the piece on for a test fit and it took about an hour to get it all apart and another 3 to install, R&R the turn signals and running lights, relocate the horns, messing around, drink some beer, etc. The hood and front bumper cap is MA Shaw.

[Joeaksa]

Paul,

What I was concerned with was the "fitting time" and you really explained it the way I needed to hear. I have heard all the stories about how much time I am going to need to take off the old bumper and such but did not want to take hours working with the new parts to get them to fit.

We all have seen parts that if you threw at the car, looked right from a distance but if you needed only 15 minutes to get the pieces to fit more or less correctly, then the quality and fit is good.

Thanks much! The beer is a working tool is it not??

Joe

[Chuck Moreland]

Well Paul, I guess that makes me feel a little better. Also the early and late bumpers are not comparable in terms of mounting.

I did have to do a fair bit of trimming on the hood though. And I had to machine a bit of extra adjustment range into one of the hinges to get it low enough.

The front bumper was the poorest fit of the bunch. It was too wide at the fenders and needed to be tensioned a bit to get it to line up. I've seen plenty of other RS FG bumpers that had this same problem and the owners just let it sit wide. I'm just a picky bastard.

The rear bumper fit well with just a bit of trimming. However I had to glue and glass the supports to the piece myself and that took time.

The tail was a bolt on. However the gaps are a bit large for my picky bastard eye. I am going to fix this.

[skinnerd]

Just for more information on this "weighty" topic. I built an RS lightweight from a non sunroof 73E with the following done. Fiberglass F&R bumpers, fiberglass ducktail, 2.7MFI RS motor w/ SSI and factory twin outlet sport exhaust, removed engine sound pad, removed all the insulation in the cabin beneath the carpeting, removed all rear uphostery, installed factory lt. weight carpeting and door panels, installed lexan all window except rollups in the doors, removed AC, installed fuel cell a full Safety Devices bolt in cage, installed Sparco drivers seat and RS replica seat for passenger, installed Halon fire system for engine compartment-cabin-fuel cell, aluminum trailing arms and crossmember, stock brakes w/ cool ducts, and that's about it. With 4-5 gallons of fuel, the car weighed right at 2180# which was confirmed on a number of occasions at PCA club races and SCCA autocrosses (F-prepared). If I removed the bolt-in roll cage and passenger seat, I could get down to approx. 2115 lbs.

This is my data. I'm still looking to built the 1800 lb. R clone one day.

[TimT]

What a timely and interesting thread! I scaled my car right before I decided to put it on a carbon and fiberglass diet!!!

My car is a '69T that a previous owner installed a MITCOM rear update and glass front and rear RSR flares. I installed a OG racing roll bar.

The car scaled at 2185# w/ rollbar and heavy ass koenig seats!!

so far i have replaced the following

* front and rear caps are carbon

*hood and tail are glass

*all 4 quarters are now full glass RSR flares

*cut the roof off and replaced with glass roof skin

*replaced the doors with nascar doors ( my doors weighed 130 for the pair, the glass doors weigh 16lbs/pair)

Given these mods Im easily below 2000# already.

Other interesting tid bits include removing about ~40# of undercoating and associated garbage. as well as stripping and chemically cleaning the interior.

I have a Kirkey seat to sit in now (20#) the koenig driver seat and Porshche high back seat weighed close to 100#, so I just lost say 80# by a seat choice

and all the glass is now Lexan, except for the windshield

I have scribbled the weight differences on different scraps of paper, someday I will assemble this into a meaningful resource, and post it on my website.

I am hoping my car will scale at less than 1850#

oh and the rear shocks weigh 3 lbs each (koni 3011 mounted upside down)

Im just itchin to get this project done 190 hp and less than 1800 lbs should be cool

[Bobboloo]

Tim,

I think you've just won the "911 Anorexia Award" for your diligence.

Bobby