Picked Up a New Project Smoking is Bad But.......

[spb350]

Okay I bought this 85 Targa yesterday after getting a call from a mechanic. Some lady brought the car to him, her husband died over a year ago and she decided to sell it. Well it was smoking like a tire fire and the mechanic assumed it was due to bad valve guides because of the high miles, 168000. So I go and look at it and yup turn the key and the smoke is just billowing out, never seen a car smoke that much. Well the car was price adjusted for a valve job so I bought it. I got it home and pulled the dip stick and the oil was half way up the length of the stick and it wasn't running, I know that's not right. So I pulled more then a gallon of oil out of the tank and then started it up again. Still smoking terrible, the lady across the street was ready to call the fire dept before she saw where the smoke was coming from. I let it run for a good 10 - 15 minutes and it was still smoking just as bad and oil was spitting out of the tail pipe (see pic). So I pulled the car into the garage and shut it off and was thinking maybe it is the guides or maybe I just need to run it a lot longer. Well I messed around with a few other things and then decided to fire it up again, when I did there was no smoke coming out of the tailpipe but I did not rev it up, I idled it a few minutes with no apparent smoke then shut it off. The car seems to run and idle really good and it looks pretty dry underneath. I have no idea how much it was driven with the extra oil in it but I don't think it was driven more then 15 miles or so. The oil I took out looked pretty clean. There was no oil in the airbox and I haven't pulled the plugs yet but I will do that soon. So...............

Where did all that extra oil go when it was running? Intake? Mufflers?

Does the fact that it wasn't smoking after I started it again mean anything?

Am I going to have to run it a lot more to burn it all out?

I'm not sure how to do a leak down test but I know I need to do that.

Here's a few pics

[DRACO A5OG]

Oil Over Fill about a guart+

What is the middle level when cold? Yeap too much oil.

1st never let her sit an idle, Drive Off immediately and bring her up to operating temps ( 1/4" above 1st has mark on the temp gauge ) then check the level with the ending on.

Removal:

1. loosen drain nut and let it slowly drip out. Caution do not loosen too far or you will lose allot and cause a mess, just enough to let it drip, Slow as heck but controlled.

2. Buy a pump at the FLAPS and some cheap hose and pump it out from the sump

You might have lucked out. Drain to proper levels and take her for a good drive then on a down hill, let the car go on it's own, no gas, if there is no smoke then you should be good to go

[spb350]

Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG

Oil Over Fill

What is the level when cold? It should read below LOW mark.

1st never let her sit an idle, Drive Off immediately and bring her up to operating temps ( 1/4" above 1st has mark on the temp gauge ) then check the level with the ending on.

Removal:

1. loosen drain nut and let it slowly drip out. Caution do not loosen too far or you will lose allot and cause a mess, just enough to let it drip, Slow as heck but controlled.

2. Buy a pump at the FLAPS and some cheap hose and pump it out from the sump

I can't drive it legally yet so I thought I would try to burn a little off, but yes I know idling a long time is not good.

I have a pump and pumped a gallon out of the tank but I think I can take more out as its still reading over the top mark when running and hot.

[DRACO A5OG]

Might need to clean the AFM, the tube, throttle body and (ICV)

If it has a 02Sensor, might want to remove and burn off the carbon with a torch to obtain a proper reading for the DME

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by spb350

I can't drive it legally yet so I thought I would try to burn a little off, but yes I know idling a long time is not good.

I have a pump and pumped a gallon out of the tank but I think I can take more out as its still reading over the top mark when running and hot.

Whoa 4 quarts, Damn that is allot.

Yeah, you don't want a nice new ticket

When you say hot, it reached 194F? if not then thermostat is not open and it will be hard to get a proper reading. Well as long as it reads below low mark when cold you should be fine.

But it is a good sign subsequent starts she does not smoke

[rusnak]

Did I miss something?

Since when do you remove excess oil by running the engine and "burning it out"?

See that cat that costs well over $1,000? You just ruined it.

The drain plugs are there. Use them. Re-fill with proper amount of oil.

[spb350]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Did I miss something?

Since when do you remove excess oil by running the engine and "burning it out"?

See that cat that costs well over $1,000? You just ruined it.

The drain plugs are there. Use them. Re-fill with proper amount of oil.

I think you did miss something I pumped a gallon of oil out and brought the level down to where it should be or close to it before I ran it. I assumed the oil that overflowed was already in the cat and mufflers and where ever else it was going to go while it was with the previous owner. I thought I would try to burn it out before pulling it all apart which is plan two.

[DRACO A5OG]

BTW, Congrats on your new 3.2

[Bob Ashlock]

CONGRATS on your score!

I had an experience with a complete 911T engine (carbs, muffler and tranny attached) that I bought from a garage clean-out sale several years back. PO had bought it for a project many years prior and had never run it. I got it home, built a stand and fired it up in my garage. Had the same experience ... after a few seconds running, it started smoking like a banshee and this went on for a good 20 minutes. Then suddenly, it just stopped smoking. During its long sleep, oil must have drained into some cylinders. I think most of the oil ended up in the exhaust headers and muffler and simply needed to be burned-off. After some cleanup and verification of oil pressure, etc., I later installed that engine in my project car and drove it for several years with no problems before I sold the car.

[spb350]

I hope the smoke is going to clear up but if it doesn't I'll figure something out. It sure seems like it runs good and it idles right at 900 or so and everything works, horn, lights, buzzers, wipers and washers, gauges, tranny shifts good, brakes really well, paint is a 10 footer, funny but the drivers seat is in great shape and the pass seat has a split seam, carpets and mats are good, dash is cracked though, over all a pretty decent driver if the smoke drops by about 95%

Is there anything I can add to the gas to help dissipate the oil?

[Jdub]

What a nice car you've purchased - you are going to love it.

Surprise, Arizona? Seems fitting.

[Uncle Enzo]

Why not just change the oil so as you know its spot on?

[rusnak]

When you run a car with too much oil, this is what happens:



Hydrolock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Driving it home may have filled everything with oil. I would take the muffler off and see if you can pour oil out of it. Use a strong flashlight through the cat and hopefully it's not ruined, but I think it is. Change the oil. Do a leakdown test.

[Justin@Athens]

Rusnak is offering you good advice. Do not run the car as is please. The cat is not worth $300 let alone $1000, so yank it and hollow it out or buy a test pipe. Pull the muffler and rinse it out, with degreaser, probably heat exchangers too for that matter.

With the kind of overfill situation you are looking at, I am surprised it is not flowing out of the airbox at this point. The whole intake needs to be disassembled and cleaned. Needs a complete oil service.

[cabmandone]

How long was it setting in a garage? I've read that these cars will smoke badly when they set for long periods of time. When I installed my engine it had sat for about 4 years without running. I about freeked out when I started it and smoke started rolling out (yes the exhaust and other places) Someone said go run it. I did and it hasn't smoked since. Not saying that'll be the case with your car but I think I'd get the oil level right then drive it and see if it clears up. If it does clear, I'd do a valve adjustment to make sure they're right and drive it. It's too easy to throw money at something that isn't really a problem.

BTW, if you don't have emissions to meet, just take the CAT off and install a CAT delete pipe and be done with it.

[spb350]

The car had not been driven for the last 10 - 12 years because the previous owner decided to buy a Prius as his commuter car to replace this Porsche. He bought the Porsche in 1989 and was putting 1000 - 1500 miles per month on it according to gas logs that were in the car. I don't know how or when it got overfilled but I'm sure it wasn't driven much that way as it was smoking so bad. I trailer-ed the car home and only drove it a couple miles to check if the tranny was shifting good before buying it. I'll get plates for it on Monday and then I can drive it some. I'll probably go ahead and just change the oil that way I know its fresh and filled with the correct amount.

[jittsl]

Until I put a special valve in the bottom tank to engine hose (can't remember where I bought it but it was intended for this very purpose) my '70 used to smoke awfully for the first few miles if it had been left for a couple of weeks. Apparently the tank used to drain back past the oil pump into the sump and then fill the cylinders with too much oil. If yours was way overfilled then I'm guessing, particularly if your car shared my issue, it would be exacerbated. Just a thought.

[scottrx7tt]

when I bought my car, it sat for 5+ years. I had taken the heat exchangers off the motor to change an oil line. When I got them off, they were full of oil, so was the crossover tube, and the cat bypass. When these cars sit for long periods of time, oil seeps past the rings, and can fill the exhaust with oil. I would probably take the exhaust off, and clean it good, then put it all back together. Even after cleaning mine, it still burned quite a bit of residual oil off.
These cars have a dry sump oil system, so the likelihood of ruining the engine with overfilling the tank is not likely. Worst case, it could injest some oil through the hose running from the oil tank to the intake, which could cause a pretty good smoke screen.

[spb350]

I started it again today and until the exhaust system got hot (which didn't take long) it was not smoking. I'm hoping that means the valve guides are ok and it's just the exhaust that is full of oil. I think I'm going to drop as much of it as I can. I'll report back. If it was valve guides would it start smoking as soon as I start it? Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

[dw1]

Yep, valve guides would likely smoke on start-up and not stop.

Congratulations!

You scored a 3.2 at a substantial discount just because it had among the most common of owner/mechanic air cooled 911 mistakes - too much oil. The air-cooled 911 engines have to have oil filled per the owners manual, and NOT following standard wet-sump procedures.

If the engine isn't smoking now, it is very likely the engine & valve guides are o.k. As previously noted, some clean-up may be required to get rid of oil that got into places it shouldn't. Like the exhaust.