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Innovations and custom installations. Contribute yours please
Hi, I've received several PM's about some instrumentation I designed into my car that people saw at the recent lit show and figured I'd just create a post to explain some of the installation and operational aspects of them
Lets start with the aircraft engine analyzer but first let me explain my addiction comes from being an engineering test pilot for a major business jet manufacturer so I can't resist the constant temptation to perform avionics engineering or aerospace engineering on my car. What your looking at is called a US-8A and it is made by EI instruments I'll shows some pictures first, talk about the installation and then it's usage http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1394253945.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1394254059.jpg The instrument has 16 k-type thermocouple inputs for various types of sensors For the left bank of channels 1 - 6 I have cht (cylinder head temp 14mm ) sensors under each lower spark plug on the twin plug heads on the right bank of channels 1 - 6 I have egt ( exhaust gas temp) probes drilled and mounted into each pipe at 1.5 inches from each exhaust valve. Channel 7 left is a p120 k-type sensor mounted into a manifold block connected to my lower transmission drain plug which feeds a check valve posited up at the level of the transmission fill plug and goes to a oil pump, cooler then expands from -6an to -8n to reduce pressure before returning to a 90 degree swivel an fitting drilled and tap threaded into the 901 directly above the ring gear. The check valve and diameter change are critical to keep the oil level at height so when pump is off, the oil cooler doe not over fill the transaxle and the diameter change is so I don't pressurize the case and blow seals when in operation. Back to the gauge, the right channel 7 is again a p120 temp sensor but this one is mounted to the top extra cap port on my front right wide mouth oil cooler So you can see that channels 1 thru 6 give me cht and egt for each cylinder and channel 7 is trans oil temp on left window and external oil cooler temp at the right front fender. Channel 8 unused (for now) Now the gauge can be programmed for upper, lower and differential limits. One can use the center switch to manually step to each channel or place it in scan mode where it constantly scans the user defined limits and flags the red lights if something goes outside limits. For tuning the PMOs, it comes in handy big time. I can adjust my fuel air mixtures and idle air correctors until all egts are all within about 25 f of each other. Typical idle at 900 to 1000 rpm is around 1100 f. If a cylinder is rich , it lowers, if lean raises and if clogged jet or not spark then of course it's way down near 100 with the others still at 1100. ( please note I have dual mtx-l air fuel sensors gauges and use my carb sync to open and balance the air correctors to match vacuum on each cylinder and open them all equally until I obtain a perfect 12.5 to 1 on each side bank of three. This with the egt helps me idle a 906 cam (early rsr) cam 318 and 292 duration with the 906 1.5 rockers instead of standard 911 1.45 and idle like any new production car. Smooth. Also the air correctors opened a little give me a better progressive with zero flat spots when transitioning to mains. I don't have 2.8 liter secrets so the pistons are JE 92mm with 25.5 volume dome and the heads are 74 modified to 42 intake and 38 exhaust ports with standard 46/40 valves and 68 cc chambers giving a CR of 12.0011 hence why I run vp 101 street legal unleaded for good measure (specific gravity of .713 @ 60f) Head valves and ports match the pmo carbs and Venturi. 46/42. And for exhaust the head ports 38 matches the 1.5 inch headers (38mm) Back to the gauge It provides me with a very safe and early warning monitor of engine parameters which can be costly and ring damage etc if not caught instantly. It helps me tune to a level beyond what a plug read can do It's just good insurance and it's cool and fun to use and tune with. The next picture is of the afr gauges http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1394255963.jpg They obviously help me tune for power. In the earlier picture you can see the bung welded aft of the merge for the left bank exhaust for cylinders 1 2 and 3. Note there is an aluminum heat sink that is finned between the bosch sensor and the bung that must be oriented with the airflow direction and reduces temp at the o2 sensor to prolong life. Same for the right header cylinders 4 5 and 6. These help me set idle up thru 8k and can be logged via computer link when driving under load to see afr vs rpm I target 12.5 to 1 because most know that is best power whereas 14.7 to 1 is best emissions. I run the PMO 46 with 42 Venturi and 160 mains, F 2 emulsions and 180 air correctors to obtain within plus or minus 1 of 12.5 to 1 all the way up. Any questions. Feel free and I don't want to re read this so I hope no typos..... |
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Only a real pilot would state the specific gravity of the fuel he is using in his car. :)
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Awwww Max. I thought we get to be astronauts today... Ha ha. Wanna see my watch?
And my favorite story (told with hands demonstrating the aerial maneuvers) There I was..... inverted as I closed on the space shuttle while it was re entering over Texas.... Couldn't see **** because my air medals we dangling across my visor..... Flashing my high beams at the SR-71 that wouldn't give way to faster moving traffic...... |
Trump:
If you know who Scott Crossfield is.. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1394349763.jpg He signed my logbook! |
All you flyboys will have a damn hard time making the corner with your wheels in the air.
I am Draden's twin brother. I heard a rumor you got the car out for it's debut- so I came in to give a peek at all the commotion. Nice Job, car looks great and I heard is running spectacular. Trump: Draden's brother is a NASCAR Craftman Supertruck crew chief. And a pretty damn good test pilot in cars (performance driving instructor for an exotic car company...ie: Ferrari's and Lambo's) |
[QUOTE=ClickClickBoom;7951856]Trump:
If you know who Scott Crossfield is.. Yeah, he's the first man to do Mach 2 and only my all time biggest influence and hero Ok, that's a valid trump. I'm jealous. And to my twin brother, yeah it's nice to finally have her back home after 19 yrs and get ca plates back on her. Felt good to get her to a hometown debut. But she must have thought she was still going to the Hershey pa show. I think we cursed it and brought the rain |
[QUOTE=Draden;7952091]
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I was up to my elbows in a helicopter, checking something or another when I looked down and saw this old guy standing and quietly watching me work. I asked him if I could help him and he said "no thanks, I just want to watch, if that's OK" I got to a stopping point and came down to take a break and introduced myself, and he introduced himself as Scott, I said hi Scott, "you have a last name?"(Ex-cop, who likes to know exactly who he is dealing with), he said Crossfield. It took a few minutes to register, but being an airplane geek, the details lined up after a few minutes. We chatted about everything aircraft/flying related, and absolute fountain of knowledge about test flight, but he was very explicit about his "modest" GA experience level. He came back several times over the week and was as delightful to chat with as anyone I had ever met, unlike Gen. Yeager. When I asked him to autograph my logbook, he signed without hesitation, but when I asked him to sign the cross country endorsement he became a little reluctant. I said "Scott nearest I can tell, for me to get the Smithsonian to take the X-15 off the wires and line up a modified B-52, pressure suit and then wedge my fat butt into the whole enchilada is about the same as me levitating" He laughed and with no small amount of glee, fully embraced the humorous endorsement. I am looking for a SR-71 pilot for a similar endorsement for chuckles, a U-2 would be icing on the log book.! Sorry about the thread creep, when I tell this story most people's eyes glaze over and I can tell they would rather be in the dentists chair. |
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Back on topic, not to say that the off-topic was bad at all!
I have done this in my head many times. What egt sensors did you use? When you multiply by 6 it starts getting expensive. |
He used K-type thermocouples (cheap) but not sure if his dash piece can read the thermocouples or if he has an intermediate reader.
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Yes max is correct k types are cheap. however sorry, I am using the isolated type that are not ground common and thus very expensive.
P-110 fast response k type probes, about 100 each before tax and shipping. Check like aircraft spruce website. The gauge takes the thermocouples right to the instrument connector ( no converter) so you have to buy the wiring and route it as well as the little yellow disconnects that are Also bi metal cr/al These guys areexpensive and the Whole install is about 3500 without labour with clamps connectors, wiring probes circuit breakers under the dash, Backlighting relays so off is full bright led w/bezel and lights on is switched to the car dimmer for bezel and disable led. I can provide wiring diagrams to anyone serious. I'll have to re draft them cause they are hand drawn and added to my manuals. Please note that these k type are the expensive ones that are ground isolated meaning they cannot touch airframe ( sorry, car frame) ground. They are the chromel and alumel type with the wires soldered at the tip and encased in ceramic inside and isolated from the outer metal probe cover. There are k type that can be grounded but not these plus those kind suck cause they are prone to airframe noise and give error. Don't use the grounded type Especially around the spark plugs. Or you will have ignition or everything else using your signal wire as a return path. For those who need a quick understanding, k type thermocouple measures the difference at the junction of the two metals being joined and is immune to wire resistance. In theory, you could run a chromel and alumel pair from NY to CA and accurately measure the temp without the wire length affecting it The weak point is the cht probes, you have to use 14mm type and bend the tab up 90 and place it on the plug with deep socket and extension and go all the way up into the lower plug path and lock these down and get your wrench back out without crushing the metal tab and ceramic inside while torquing the lower plugs. If your not careful you can break fins, or crush the sensor. It's tricky and if you try it you'll see why I used the lower plugs. Easier to access and see down with the motor installed. For single plug, I would not try this unless motor out. I also use lower because the cooling fan is more directed on the upper and lower is worse case scenario for temp. ( assumed but not actually compared) Egt probes are easy. Reliable. Accurate and very useful. After running the. Cht I trust my engine and could live without the cht guage as I never even come close to head temp issues. ( probably because of the high octane, dual plug and running slightly rich all keep my temps down well below any concern. It all works for my engine I absolutely could not live without my egt monitoring now. I'm so spoiled having it and would hate to tune or run without it now. I use it. A lot Again, any questions for anyone interested. I will gladly help. They have a lot of gauges out there. I happened to do side work for a friend and did the upgrade on his aircraft to a more advance glass cockpit display that had engine monitoring and more. So he gave me the gauge and bought me new probes etc as payment for doing the removal and upgrade installation on his aircraft. Of course I knew I wanted that thing in my car. It's fast enough response. Honestly I think the non fast response probes would be just fine but there is a small delta in price so I just went for the others cause it was part of the deal I struck with him as payment for work I did for him. Putting the sensor on the pipe is easy, drill th hole where you want it and put the probe in with the bad clamp. Make sure the metal sealing washer is there so no exhaust leak. I never calibrated mine. I just made sure they were all 1.5 away from the flange at the head end. The probes are made with c clips on the inside and outside that can be slide to change the depth of the probe, the more in the pipe the hotter the reading, the shallower the lower the reading. You can adjust and cal these with the headers off and flowing a set temp thru with a heat gun and external calibrated fluke meter probe or some similar setup but really, getting each cylinder even within a 100 of each other is way good enough and you'll see adjusting that a little change in the idle screws changes a lot. You will achieve a much better balance by adjusting and watching these than just the old fashion "turn in until you hear rpm drop, then back out to rpm normal and add a little turn for good measure" type of approach. Try that without looking at the gauge, then go back and try it again with the gauge, Plus mounting the gauge by the driver door gives me view from the engine compartment ( for the most part). The right carb of course is farther but I have long arms being over 6-4. I just manually step advance the gauge led to the cylinder I'm adjusting and turn the idle screw til good. Of course like I said in the earlier post, you have to balance the air correctors for equal vacuum and all that after you first set idle stop and linkage etc etc etc. you know the Richard parr long version.( PMO carb designer for those who don't know Mr Parr). Everyone should know him |
Very impressive. Roninlb would have loved this thread. Rest well Ron.
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There are a lot of newer LCD type gauges on the market. Again look at aircraft spruce or a similar website for engine analyzers if you have an old fashion non ecu controlled engine with no closed circuit feedback. Ie fuel injected relying on o2. This enhances carburetor type engines and the adjustment of.
Please please note. Do not use the ground common type. Your engine case has too much electrical noise on it. It is the ground for your alternator and your ignition spark plugs. Remember that the ignition system and anything else grounded to the case must return to the battery to complete it circuit. This means mated to the tranny then the ground strap from tranny to car. If you use grounded type, then the spark plug path can jump onto your signal wires and return to ground through your gauge making the reading very erratic. Many people eat clutch cables because they don't realize their ground strap is bad and the voltage travels down the clutch cable as a return path, making it brittle from electron flow and thus prone to breaking. You'd be surprised how many Porsche and VW and other type of car owners don't know that especially since most engine mounts are rubber isolators. Breaking clutch cables = check ground strap. |
If you know who Bob White is...we shared many a moment around Heidelberg on the autobhans in my Ruf Porsche in the late 80's and early 90's. Small world.
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Bob White and Scott Crossfield, yes small world and very very cool stories.
Hey ClickClick Boom. Come on, I bet together we are resourceful enough to somehow get that X15 out of the Smithsonian. no B52? Well we can ground launch it from the roof of whoever on this forum claims to have the fastest 911. Ps, When i was stationed to Edwards, I got a chance to take my Porsche on the dry lake bed at speed. Not many get to do that!!!!!!!!! We got a plan! Now back on topic, Maybe an airspeed probe with a 40 knot airspeed switch integrated to my homemade spoiler control panel to deploy the 964 spoiler decklid i option on/off the vehicle. Just for a cool nostalgic way that it would have been done back in the late 60s had the Porsche engineering department done it. |
Similiar install fron Ron (RIP).
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Cool, yes both EI and JPI make gauges. I have flown an aircraft with that model and liked it. I'm not sure the depth of that one. Mine is pretty deep and I barely had room behind the dash where I placed it. The JPI in that picture is nice and had I started from scratch I'd probably went with that model had I not obtained this one in a barter exchange. Nice to visually see all cylinders at once for quick scan. They both have a scan mode. Mine has very bright warning lights that I like so I don't have to watch it. It'll let me know cause you can't miss the light when looking forward out the window.
That gauge has sub d type connectors that mount against the back and can be a clearance issue unless you do it in a center pedestal like shown. It uses the each same k type sensor and wiring. One negative is it doesn't have the extra channels 7 and 8 and I use both inputs on channel 7 for trans temp and oil cooler temp with 2 open on channel out for future growth. I'm sure I would have liked Ron, glad to see someone else did this and was innovative. I think I'd go for the 6 cylinder color egt only display from aerospace logic or maybe the 8 channel so I could keep my trans oil temp and external oil temp. I'd forgo the cht and could do it for about 1200 or less. Cheap compared to the cost of my engine and protecting it from damage. For mounting cht in the injector holes, I thought about that when I did mine 10 yrs ago. The air fuel charge cools the intake so your not going to get cht. Had I not already had my heads on and engine built I would have considered using the probe type that can screw in and maybe modified a section of the head to accept a mount point. Next time I do head work I'm going to consider a location but I'm twin spark so real estate may keep me on the lower plugs. You have to consider the fan doesn't blow equal flow over each head via the shroud so mounting these on the top side can be very biased by air cooling effect Again cht isn't a big deal to me now that I've ran it so long and in ten years never had a cht issue ever. The egt is another story, can't live without it with carbs. Plugged jet, rich or lean cylinder, you know instantly at any rpm Also note, the UBG-16 shown there I has a lot of input options like fuel flow oat etc that are configured at purchase and makes that unit a bit more expensive than mine. I don't see using the additions. But like I said, I like the display better to see all at once for a quick visual scan. They have very cool colored and monochrome units now. If I get a chance I might put up a list of what I'd do now if on a budget and would focus on just egt. I'd have to review the install manuals and look and see if I think there would be installation issues not noted like I know would happen with the ground type probes. |
Very impressive . Do you have any 67 wiring harness left in the car
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