Oil Leak at rocker shaft

[MackGuy]

Hi all,

Had my car into RennGruppe Motorsports a few weeks ago for some minor setup work and asked them to take a look at my oil leaks and recommend a fix. Their response is that the most likely culprit is the rocker shafts are centered rather than offset as they should be. Other possibility was oil cooler.

Also said the only good way to correct this is to remove the engine, as it's impossible/extremely difficult to do with the engine in the car, and by the time all is said and done would probably run me around $1,000 to get it taken care of. I think these guys know what they're talking about and are a respected shop, but just wanted to do a sanity check. Does that pricing seem reasonable?

Dan P says the rocker shafts can be corrected with the engine in the car. Has anyone else done this? Is it a good weekend project, or a major PITA?

This is a 1973.5 T

Thanks!

[timmy2]

Just did mine, engine out for sure.

[jpl500]

I changed all my lower ones and put in the RSR seals with the engine in the car in about an hour. Where are you? If you are local I can lend a hand, it's easy.

[304065]

Jack and support car so it does not fall and kill you
Drain oil
Remove all valve covers
Loosen valve adjuster nuts with M13 socket
Back off elephant foot adjusters
Clean internal wrenching feature of rocker shafts, both ends
Remove rocker shafts with shortened M5 hex bit and M8 allen wrench
Remove rockers
Inspect rocker shaft hardware and replace as necessary
Inspect rocker face for wear (will be diagonal owing to thrust of rocker on shaft)
Install RSR seals
Reinstall rocker shafts and rockers in correct alignment
Torque rocker shafts using shortned M5 Hex bit and 3/8" drive torque wrench
Adjust valves
Reinstall valve covers, renew gaskets and hardware if necessary
Fill engine with oil

In terms of the strict time and special tools required $1,000 probably a bit steep
In terms of the PITA factor $1,000 a real bargain
How much is avoiding a lot of greasy, dirty work and laying under a car for a day worth?

If it were me doing it I would absolutely drop the engine just for convenience.

[trond]

I am just now in the process of doing this job on a friends car, rocker shafts not only leaking but loose to the point where one rocker actually fell out

By lowering the engine at the rear and removing the engine tin you will have fair access. At no point did I feel there was any need to take the engine out

[quattrorunner]

Originally Posted by jpl500

I changed all my lower ones and put in the RSR seals with the engine in the car in about an hour. Where are you? If you are local I can lend a hand, it's easy.

Disagree with the easy part. Top ones are the problem. It's simple in idea, but angles and things as well as small space makes it a PITA. I also did it with engine in the car(RSR seals) and it took some time. It is possable though a shop would rather you pay to remove the engine so they have a nicer experience

[CCM911]

And you will be adding o-rings to seal the shaft ends? That is how the factory cured this issue back in the day.

Agree with the others - engine should be out. For god's sake, adjusting the valves is a major league PITA with the engine in-situ. LOL!!!

[MackGuy]

What are the RSR seals I keep reading about? Available from pelican? Any modifications needed for install?

[timmy2]

Pelican sells the rsr seals but are pricey. Do some searching.
No mods needed, easy to put on shaft. 101 projects covers it.

[SCrescue]

FWIW, I recently installed RSR seals on all of my rocker shafts with the motor in the car and it was not nearly as difficult as anticipated. With that said, I'm running Weber carbs, not FI, so that may have made it simpler for me.

Mike...

[john walker's workshop]

speculating that the shafts are centered, is wierd. why not take the covers off and see?

[kodioneill]

If the shafts are out of position and leaking you don't need the seals locate them (shafts) in the proper position and torque them to 21' lbs they wont move or leak ever again.

[jpl500]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

Disagree with the easy part. Top ones are the problem. It's simple in idea, but angles and things as well as small space makes it a PITA. I also did it with engine in the car(RSR seals) and it took some time. It is possable though a shop would rather you pay to remove the engine so they have a nicer experience

I agree the tops would be a huge problem with the engine in the car. I only did the bottoms as the tops weren't leaking.

[timmy2]

Spend the $1000 on a lift and do it yourself.
You'll thank yourself many times for your foresight!

[kodioneill]

You can position them and torque them in the car with a partial engine drop.

[sballard]

I had oil leaks that just couldn't be explained by anything else. Finally, I dropped the engine and torqued the shafts to the higher recommended value (sorry I can't remember what that is). The oil leaking was decreased by about 95%. A couple of the shafts had "wandered." This was well-worth doing. My engine does not have the o-rings but tightening the shafts had a big effect. I can't imagine doing this without dropping the engine.

[MackGuy]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

speculating that the shafts are centered, is wierd. why not take the covers off and see?

When the car was in at RennGruppe he said he could see that they were centered and corrected a few but couldn't get to most without taking the engine out. Also said it could be oil cooler.

Originally Posted by timmy2

Spend the $1000 on a lift and do it yourself.
You'll thank yourself many times for your foresight!

This is tempting, I'm actually in the process of getting quotes to build a large garage that will include a lift, however the timing of that and wanting to get the leaks fixed don't line up right now.

Originally Posted by kodioneill

You can position them and torque them in the car with a partial engine drop.

Please explain (with pictures if possible) the partial engine drop.... I'm not familiar with this, but it seems like it would be handy for many things!

[timmy2]

Oil leaks around the oil cooler could also be the holy trinity of leaks on the top rear of your engine.
I would do a complete drop and cleaniing followed by replacement of the "usual suspects" that leak, and fix the rocker shafts.
I did a partial drop to adjust my valves and it was do-able but I don't think I'd want to do the rocker shafts that way.
Then again I'm getting older (turned 50 this year) so I tend to work smarter not harder a lot more.

[aigel]

^ What Timmy said.

The shop says it likely is the rocker shafts or it could be the oil cooler. Which one is it? They are not sure what it is, so you will pay a grand now for them to mess with the rockers to likely pay another grand later to check the oil cooler and maybe the thermostat gasket.

Getting to all the shafts is fun if you are a proctologist, otherwise it will be much easier to drop the engine, put it on the stand and do it in a comfortable positition with access from all side.

Like Timmy said, I would pull the engine and replace all seals and gaskets you can easily get to. $300 in parts and a couple of weekends, and you'll be done. This is what I did on my SC and the engine was bone dry afterwards.

If you can't do this yourself, consider paying a shop to do a reseal. I wold not do any piecemeal.

G

[kodioneill]

Originally Posted by MackGuy

When the car was in at RennGruppe he said he could see that they were centered and corrected a few but couldn't get to most without taking the engine out. Also said it could be oil cooler.



This is tempting, I'm actually in the process of getting quotes to build a large garage that will include a lift, however the timing of that and wanting to get the leaks fixed don't line up right now.



Please explain (with pictures if possible) the partial engine drop.... I'm not familiar with this, but it seems like it would be handy for many things!

Pelican Technical Article: Partial 911 Engine Drop