New (sort of) 911 owner... (warning: graphic rust pics!)

[june82000]

Hello everyone - I am a new 911 owner as of about two years ago. On a whim, post divorce, I picked up an 'easy project' a 1974 911 coupe with the dreaded sunroof option. I paid way too much I know, and it's got quite a lot of rust that needs repair. I got the car, with the engine (heard it run and that's about it) for I think it was $6500. I paid a few hundred more and got black seats and interior out of 77 along with windows door panels and a few other odds and ends. Engine has some sort of special clutch and an electronic ignition set up. Transmission included as well. I also picked up a roof panel from another 911 (no sunroof) in great condition.

After seeing it sit in the garage not doing much (I have other projects as well) a few months ago I decided to put it up for sale (probably at a net loss). My new wife (great woman by the way) talked me out of it. She does not want me to sell it - "it's my dream car". Well, yes, I did really want a 911 - and I actually do have one now! My current plan is to finish my current project; a 66 Mustang Fastback with an EFI and T5 manual transmission upgrade; then start putting time into this car.

So, I guess I'm just getting my feet wet here on the forum; awaiting the ridicule for buying such a basket case, but hopefully I can regain the desire to work on this and get some insight (and inspiration) from others.

That said, I am not interested in a stock restoration at all, in fact I like the idea of the small block chevy powering this thing.

I'm in DEEP on this project and that's all I know. I plan to do nearly all of the work myself - I'm not a good welder but I can get better.

[june82000]

My biggest concern right now and it's really bothering me is the A-pillar rust as you can see. The car looked better before I bought it, I only discovered how bad it was after buying it for course.

[Reiver]

It's all do able if you find a good donor car as long as you are an excellent welder. I wouldn't want to pay anyone to do that.
Sadly, you are probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
I've never seen rust like that on a roof top panel.

[Trackrash]

The problem with 911s is they tend to rust from the inside out, as some of us have discovered in the past.

The only way to have an honest evaluation of the work ahead of you is to completely disassemble the car. Only then can you tell what, if anything, is repairable.

You should spend some time, if you haven't already, on this forum searching for others who have repaired rusty cars.

Yes, repair panels are available, but once the rust gets into the frame and inner panels it can be a nightmare.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[gregwils]

My guess is that you have lots more rust still to discover. Behind the fenders, on the firewall, probably the rockers too. It can be repaired, but you will end up stripping the car to the tub to get all the rust.

You're spend many thousands of dollars and many hundreds of man hours. Depending on your time and goal, it could be a great project and very satisfying, or it could be frustrating that it is taking so much time and money to finish. Only you know what works and what doesn't, just be honest with yourself about the project before you make a decision.

[Flojo]

The option of hot-rodding a 911 are so many options and stil sticking to stock (design, parts) so there is acually no need of thinking of a chevy-motor or anything non-porsche.

strip the bugger, do your welding master ;-) ... and rebuild at your own speed and budget.

this all will be very zen and rewarding!

[Dixie]

Part it out. It would be cheaper, easier, and more rewarding to start with a 911 in better shape.

[porsche930dude]

if youre going to bastardize a porsche with a chevy engine this would be the one to do it with. Sell off the parts you wont use to get some money back and build it up. I dont see a problem here. Just takes a whole lot of time and ambition. And dont just throw money at it . work cheap because it probrobly wont be worth a whole lot when youre done

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

Part it out. It would be cheaper, easier, and more rewarding to start with a 911 in better shape.

I have to agree, unfortunately. If you actually want to DRIVE your Porsche in the next few years, this is not the car (unless you are retired and have 40 hours a week to spend on it, even then it will take time...)

Then again, if the point is not to have a Porsche to drive in the forseeable future, but is to have something TO DO a, then this would be a very fulfilling, difficult and time-occupying project but would provide endless hours of entertainment.

You could part it out OR if the parts are good, buy a rust-free (or FAR LESS rusty) body tub and move everything over to it, restoring and replacing parts as necessary as you go. Your current tub gives me chills of hundreds and hundreds of hours of cutting and welding and body work....

[irl]

If you do decide to get into this, you will slowly get immersed and soon realize you wouldn't put a Chevy motor in your Porsche any more thqn you would put a corvette engine in your mustang. It's a journey and you will remember this post forever should you move forward. I will add some good rust links for you from my archive. Having one of my cars for over 6 years and stilll not running because of extensive rust, your photos show a car that may be very very bad. Pull off a fender, shoot us some shots, under the spare tire, a close up of the jack post hole under the door and I bet even your center tunnel has rusted away from the floor. Shoot us some shots, well give our honest opinions. I would keep this car as reference and buy a solid tub off here and put the time in putting it back together by pulling the parts of this car and buying addition new parts. In the end you can use and sell a lot of it.

[matt gineo]

I can't see spending that much time and money restoring this car then dropping a Chevy engine in it???

[McLaren-TAG]

That New Hampshire sticker on the windshield was a clue you overlooked.

[wayner]

Here is some reading to get you started:

RUST repair threads
(P.S. My 73 and your 74 have more galvanizing (some down low) than those cars, so hopefully it won't be as bad as some of the 1960s cars)

Fishcop's must read rust thread - Restoration of my 69 911
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/545166-restoration-my-69-911-a.html

Rockers and kidneys - 1967 911 restoration...becoming a T/R
1967 911 restoration...becoming a T/R


This rescue thread is epic - 1968 912 junker reincarnation
1968 912 junker reincarnation


My collection of rust pictures from other threads and other sources. Know where to look and what to expect. Why windshield trim should be a regular maintenance item.
Why windshield trim should be a regular maintenance item.

And my own build thread below
Saving a 73 from the crusher...

[Sox Fan]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

Part it out. It would be cheaper, easier, and more rewarding to start with a 911 in better shape.

Agreed. Buy another car that will be a much easier starting point. This car needs enormous amount of work. The math just doesn't work to do a full restoration on a 74 with this much rust.

[GaryR]

You need a roof w/A-Pillars, floors, pedal cluster, most likely the front suspension pan, bet the inner/outer rockers are toast and would be surprised if the rear torsion area isn't shot too.. In short you need a 78+ galvanized rust free roller as that thing is a money and time pit. Sorry to say but I bet the drive train is not too great either...

[june82000]

Thanks for all of the honest input - some of it I will admit I expected, but didn't want to hear, and some of you are very encouraging! Since I am this deep into it money-wise already; and I would probably end up losing a ton of money in the selling as-is - I feel I should go ahead as some you point out and pull fenders etc. to get a closer look. I will update this post from time to time as I can with pictures of what I find. I will definitely check out the posted links so thank you for those. Yes, I saw the NH sticker before buying and I have no excuse because I did notice that. A lot of the damage was covered up with paint at the time and I should've known better but I bought it anyway. I had always wanted one of these and I got the 911 'fever' - maybe some of you can relate?? I suppose whatever work I do on it to improve the condition will only help in recouping my investment. I am pretty decent around cars; I can weld to a degree; I have most of the tools already; so i think I the reasonable choice for me is to dive in on this one. However, if I had this to do over - yes, I would definitely walk on this one!

[wayner]

About 15 years ago when old 911s were just old, my circle of friends all agreed that an old 911 is only worth what the motor is worth.

The reasoning was that a rebuild was in the $10k ballpark and a used motor in good condition was worth about $5k. An old unloved 911 was worth at least $5-$10 we reasoned, so we bought them before they were called long hoods.

With other assorted parts, Maybe you have a $5k car without doing any work?

A tranny rebuild is $4k-$7k, so if yours is good you may be 2/3rd of the way to owning a nice $15k car without having spent that much?

Meanwhile a mid year roller ( and even some SCs are $5k shells or less.

If your car is me mechanically sound, $5k for a new shell can save you thousands of hours and dollars.

As you explore your chassis keep that option on the back burner in case you discover the worst.

[GaryR]

I'm guessing, but it looks like that car may have been stripped, improperly prepared, and repainted for that level of rust on an area like the roof. If the bottom of the car in the suspension areas and the rockers is solid (by some miracle) then it's not horrific (cost-wise, will be extensive time-wise), but I agree with Wayner, a solid later roller is most likely a better bet..

[june82000]

Thanks everyone. I'm really enjoying the forum - one of the best I've ever been a part of. We're getting snow in the mid-Atlantic region this evening so they already called tomorrow as a non-work day. I think I will try to do a little work in the garage tomorrow pulling off the front bumper, fenders and hood. I'll post more pictures after that. Thanks again everyone!

[june82000]

It's snowing outside in Virginia and I have the day off tomorrow so I grabbed some beer and commenced to removing the front bumper. Here are some pictures. Like I didn't know it, but found various incorrect screws, bolts and nuts used to put together this car the last time it was painted. Anyway, enjoy the pics and let me know what you think...