911 SC Power Window Problem

[TargaSC]

I have a 1982 911 SC Targa and have a problem with the power windows I just can't sort out. The power windows are still active after I shut the car off, even after I open and shut the door. I replaced both the switches in the door jams and both seem to be operating correctly - the interior lights come on when I open the door and turn off when I close it, and the buzzer sounds when I open the door with the key still in the ignition and turns off when I remove the key. Before replacing the switches, the windows would stop working when I opened the passenger door but not the driver door, which is why is went ahead with replacing the switches originally. Now the windows don't deactivate no matter which door I open.

Any idea what might be going on? Is it possibly an issue with the relay? If so, where is it located and how would I go about replacing it?

Thanks a lot.

[OsoMoore]

If its like my SC Targa, the windows should deactivate based on the position of the key - not on the door.

Is it possible someone changed your wiring? If not, I would suspect your ignition switch has a short and isn't deactivating the secondary power circuit. If you switch the key to fully OFF, does the radio also work?

[86 911 Targa]

Originally Posted by TargaSC

I have a 1982 911 SC Targa and have a problem with the power windows I just can't sort out. The power windows are still active after I shut the car off, even after I open and shut the door. I replaced both the switches in the door jams and both seem to be operating correctly - the interior lights come on when I open the door and turn off when I close it, and the buzzer sounds when I open the door with the key still in the ignition and turns off when I remove the key. Before replacing the switches, the windows would stop working when I opened the passenger door but not the driver door, which is why is went ahead with replacing the switches originally. Now the windows don't deactivate no matter which door I open.

Any idea what might be going on? Is it possibly an issue with the relay? If so, where is it located and how would I go about replacing it?

Thanks a lot.

For our '86:
Hope this helps:



pm me as needed.

Gerry

[TargaSC]

My understanding is that the power windows remain activated until one of the door is opened, which allows you to roll up the windows after turning the car off but only until a door is opened. I'm pretty sure this is the way they're built, not some modification by a PO. I'm worried about my battery being drained in the current configuration.

Gerry - do you think changing the relay will fix the problem? I'm guessing this picture is in the boot...what part of the boot does it show?

[MrScott]

'80 SC checking in, my windows are only powered when the key is in the 2nd accessory position and above (I think it's the 2nd, I'll check later and correct if I'm wrong.)

[kodioneill]

The relay stays closed to provide power for the circuit until one of the doors are opened, even with the key off and out of the ignition.

[scarceller]

Just looked at the 82 schematic and the Power window relay should deactivate the minute the key is turned off. I think you may have a relay that has fused it self in the on position.

The relay coil activates when fuse 13 gets power and then the relay picks and you get power on fuse 21. So you should only have 12vdc on fuse 21 if fuse 13 also has 12vdc. Test those 2 fuses for 12vdc. The schematic indicates at fuse 13 goes 12vdc when you turn the key and once this happens the relay closes and then fuse 21 gets 12vdc. If you remove the relay fuse 21 should never get power.

[scarceller]

The schematic for the 82 911 does not show this feature. Maybe I don't have the correct schematic? I'm looking at the schematic for the 82 in a old Haynes manual.

Originally Posted by kodioneill

The relay stays closed to provide power for the circuit until one of the doors are opened, even with the key off and out of the ignition.

[TargaSC]

Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like I do in fact have a bad relay. I checked the part number in the picture above and our host shows it as the correct part for 1985-1994 911s and I can't seem to find one for my 1982 911. Does anyone have the correct part number? I looked through the Porsche parts guide but couldn't figure out what the part number is.

Thanks!

[86 911 Targa]

^^^^^
for our '86.
Hope this helps,

Gerry

[TargaSC]

Thanks Gerry. Are you saying the part number above (944 615 116 00) will in fact work in an 82 911? I definitely understand how to swap it out based on your pictures, but want to make sure I order the right part.

[86 911 Targa]

Give any P-car dealer a call & confirm P/N.

[scarceller]

The 82 schematic shows a basic relay with 4 posts. 2 posts for the coil and 2 posts for the contacts. Could it be that in the 82 car it's just a basic round black standard relay? The schematic above in prior post #10 is that for the 82 car? or is that from the 84-89?

Did you actually locate the relay in your 82? What does it look like and how many connection posts does it have?

Originally Posted by TargaSC

Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like I do in fact have a bad relay. I checked the part number in the picture above and our host shows it as the correct part for 1985-1994 911s and I can't seem to find one for my 1982 911. Does anyone have the correct part number? I looked through the Porsche parts guide but couldn't figure out what the part number is.

Thanks!

[MrScott]

The bentley 911SC schematic also shows a 4 post relay, and no connection between the door switches and window switches.
I don't think this "door open" delay was present in the SC.

[scarceller]

This is the schematic for the 82 SC from the factory manuals:


You can see it has a simple relay shown at the top of the schematic.

[scarceller]

Yup my schematic from the factory 82 manual shows the same as does the Haynes manual. The haynes manual is an exact copy of the factory schematic in the factory manual. I hate to see the SC folks thinking they have something they do not have. Furthermore I fear that the window relay in the 82 SC is a simple black can relay.

Originally Posted by MrScott

The bentley 911SC schematic also shows a 4 post relay, and no connection between the door switches and window switches.
I don't think this "door open" delay was present in the SC.

[TargaSC]

Before I start digging around, is the relay for an 82 SC located behind the gauges like it is for the late Carreras? If so, I can confirm that it's a simple 4 pin relay. If it is, does anyone know where I could find one? If no one knows, I can follow up with the Porsche dealer.

Thanks again.

[RSBob]

FWIW, My 82's power windows always have power. Door open or shut, key in ignition or not. Don't know if that is correct or not since my 73's windows only work with the key in accessory or while motor is running.

[garment]

Same here. I see this as a feature, not a bug! I am now working up the courage to remove the aftermarket wiring from some PO, not even sure what it's for. We'll see if that changes the window "feature" at all.

FWIW, My 82's power windows always have power. Door open or shut, key in ignition or not. Don't know if that is correct or not since my 73's windows only work with the key in accessory or while motor is running.

[scarceller]

If you look at the schematic posted in post #14 by mr. Scott you can see that the design is to shut off the relay when key is removed. With the key out Pin 86 should loose power and that deactivates the relay.

What could be happening in these cars is that the relay, over years of use, has actually fused the contacts shut permanently. Easy to test this: for those that always have the windows working even with key out I suggest these few simple checks:
- remove the relay, take key out of ignition then measure voltage at relay pin #86 it should have 0vdc.
- with the relay out measure resistance at the relay across terminals 30 and 87 they should measure no resistance (open circuit) if it measures 0ohms you have shorted fused contacts relay is bad.

What I've seen happen with relays is that with age the motors tend to work harder because the window hardware becomes stiff. This causes the motors to draw more current and then the contacts some times fuse and weld themselves closed because of arcing caused by dirty contacts. Once welded shut the stay shut. It's just a theory but can easily be investigated by doing the recommended tests above.