Targa top Tech

[carsinc]

I have been asked bunches of questions over the years and though I would share some with the groupe.

Targa top facts of life

1. There is no adjustment of rain gutters.
2. The side seals are adjustable. As they are adjusted more to the outside of the car they have the affect on lower at the same time.
3. Side seals on all tops need to be installed as far back on the top as possible. There is some adjustment.
4. The proper windshield header seal for 1989 and older cars have not been made since 1995. This includes the seal from Porsche. The improper seal makes the top sit 3/8” to high and leads to latch breaking, wind noise and top fly offs. Seal now provided are 20% to big and are actually 1990 and newer seals even though they have the right part #. I am in the process of having correct seals made, so keep tuned.
5. Tops were only meant to last 15 to 20 years before they were to be completely rebuilt.
6. Most wind noise, 98% are related to tops being worn out, not front windshield header seal.
7. All side seals purchased for 89 and older cars, are 3/16" to long. This results in damage to the rear of the seal. The fix: with a razor knife remove some rubber at the back side of the seal.
8. All tops 20 years or older need inner reinforcement material replaced. The factory material was only burlap, after all. How long does a burlap bag last.
9. Now this brings another problem. The webbing has stretched because the reinforcement was worn out. If you try just to replace the reinforcement material to tight top up, there is a pucker up of material which acts as an air scoop. You guessed it right over the drivers head. It is like put dress socks over athletic socks. There is a bunch of material. Solution, webbing needs replaced.
10. Two signs of worn out webbing: Cupping when looking down the front beading, a big depression at latch area when the top is latched.
11. Around 1988 model year the factory went to new environmentally friendly glue. Problem is the new formula breaks down in to an oily substance in 10 or 12 years. Now there is nothing to hold the vinyl to the frame. The result, burlap needs to be replaced. This is why most 90’s tops need to have webbing and reinforcement. Nothing sticks to an oil slick.
12. It is critical for tops to be kept square in the restoration process, for any activity beyond a simple re-skin. If tops are not square when rebuilt, they square themselves on car, however now folding arms and clips don't line up. This means air leaks. There are three different style fixtures need to keep the top square, which concede with the different style tops.
13. The recover and rebuilt of a Targa top will be the most difficult job you could ever perform on your Targa. Rebuilding a 911 engine is a 7 on a 10 scale, Targa top restoration is a 10. I often tell people. If local professionally can’t get the job right, how do you feel you have ghost of a chance.

[Zef]

Good nice infos to get...Many thanks Dan...!

[stealthn]

Thanks Dan for the info.

Mine is 28 years old and still looks really good, so I'm surprised on the time you recommend.

Now if you want to open a shop in Calgary, Alberta.....

[azasadny]

Dan,
Thanks for the good info, I'm glad you're around to keep our Targa tops in good shape! I'll be sending you my top this winter...

[Joeaksa]

Thanks Dan!

[carsinc]

As a post script on longevity of Targa tops, Cars in more northern climates tend to last longer for two reason.
1. Cooler
2. Not driven year round.

Heat and moisture are Targa top killers.

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by carsinc

...

Targa top facts of life

...
3. Side seals on all tops need to be installed as far back on the top as possible. There is some adjustment.
...

Hello Dan,

Thank you again for posting this thread.

If I may ask a question, about your Fact #3:

Issue:

I have very small leaks intruding from the top of both Quarter Windows where the Side Seals meets. I can even see a pin hole light through both sides at the Window Stops.

Both my Quarter Windows & A Column Seals are the same height and fit together snug without the Top. Tight when driving.

The Top fits on to the Wind Shield flat in majority of the center and the rear snug except for the last 15CM's of both Front Corners. They gradually protrude about 8-9 MM's. Approximately 7-8 MM gaps are apparent at both of the Quarter Window's top edge where the Side Seals should meet snug.

Question:

If I am reading correctly, could I remove the side seals and re-install them to sit further back on the sides so that the corners will slide into place and actually meet the bottom edge of the A Column Seal (transition point) and the Bottom edge (protrusion i.e. Quarter Window form) of the front part of the Side Seals?

Comment:

I can visualize that side seals being incorrectly installed to forward (or excess rubber)would cause too much resistance to allow the side seal to slide down to meet the A Column Seals properly. I assume too far back ( if that is possible) then it would leave a gap where the "triangular" rubber bushing type pieces would not meet the inner part of the A Column Seal.

Gee Whiz that was wordy, but it seems most of us Targa owners just did not ask this questions or post their attempt to correct this possible fix.

I really appreciate your input on this, Again, Thank You for your Valuable input.

Happy New Year!

Jim

P.S. Sorry for any typos Pelicans.

[carsinc]

Side seals should be as far back as possible and as far out as possible. As seal come out they go down closer to the side windows. This best fit for nearly every top I have seen.

[steve911]

Dan--
Can you post a picture of how/where to adjust the side seals? I've got an '85 Targa and like Draco, the front corners aren't snug, causing wind noise, particularly on the drivers side.

Thanks!
Steve

[DRACO A5OG]

Thanks for the quick reply, YOU THE MAN, DAN!

I will tackle the top's side seal this weekend.

Steve, I will post pics as soon as I am successful or the top goes to Dan.

Jim

BTW, Steve, according to the manual there are 4 sheet metal screws which secure the sides in place. You may have to peel the seal off due to some adhesives that PO/POM may have used. Be carefull not to deform the seal and take your time. I am prepared to do this because I can see adhesive/putty at the seal's edge below the rain gutters.

Also be prepared to re-align the windows after side seal adjustment

[vulcan300]

Hey Draco, were you ever successful with the side seal surgery?I have a small gap between the side seal and quarter window on both sides and I am hoping to fix this either by raising the quarter windows slightly or by adjusting the side seal position. If you could post any pictures of the work you did it would be appreciated!

[carsinc]

It may be side seal issue but then again if corners are to high this is a sign that the wrong over the windshield seal has been installed. The correct one has not been available since they stopped production in 1995. I have gotten correct one made and have in stock. $179.99 + $8 ship.

[DRACO A5OG]

I will post my work asap. I am not happy with it and really feel it may be the top

[carsinc]

1. Four screws can be loosened and the seal pushed back, no need to remove..
2. Still think problem is the over the top of the windshield seal. Sounds like the story I hear 6 times a week.
3. Unless owner have had the car since 1995 they don't know what seal is in the car.

My take

[vulcan300]

Hi Dan, my targa is an 86 and it looks like the seal is likely original. The front edge of the top sits flush from side to side, or at least that's the way it looks to my untrained eye. The gap in my case is very small (2-4 mm), unlike some of the pics people have posted on the forum where there is a half inch (~10 mm) gap. I'll take pics of the top on and off tomorrow. The front seal is chewed up here and there so I'll likely take you up on the seal offer anyways, but if there are any other adjustments you can recommend other than the seal I'm all ears.

Also, if you or Draco can pass along the PDF of that Sealing the targa guide I'd appreciate it. It looks super useful.

J

[tt_targa]

I have an '83 targa with a top that worked great when I bought it in '01.
The drivers side floor pan had a big rock dent in it so I took the seat out to pound it out. I wound up with my back agains the top and my foot on the floor. Just as the floor popped out, I heard a ratch sound from the front top latch. I think something in the latch slipped.

The latch seems to work fine but there is now more wind noise on the affected side. Can you suggest a way to undo this stupid mistake?

Thanks

[DRACO A5OG]

Originally Posted by targamaniac

Hi Dan, my targa is an 86 and it looks like the seal is likely original. The front edge of the top sits flush from side to side, or at least that's the way it looks to my untrained eye. The gap in my case is very small (2-4 mm), unlike some of the pics people have posted on the forum where there is a half inch (~10 mm) gap. I'll take pics of the top on and off tomorrow. The front seal is chewed up here and there so I'll likely take you up on the seal offer anyways, but if there are any other adjustments you can recommend other than the seal I'm all ears.

Also, if you or Draco can pass along the PDF of that Sealing the targa guide I'd appreciate it. It looks super useful.

J

Hey TargaManiac, pm me your email address and I will send you both manuals for our babys

[carsinc]

All side seal on Targas from 1970-1994 are adjustable for height. Screws loosen side seals and as they are adjusted to out side of car they get closer to side window.

I adjust these full out on all Targa tops that I restore and there seems to be few problems. Problems arise because someone was in doing adjustment on the window earlier or the Targa window stop is worn out.

These tops are very tricky. I see over 200 tops a year either restoration or ones I have bought for parts, so I have seen it all.

I wish the tops were less complicated so the owner would have a chance at rebuilding or adjusting, however what is ..is. Tops are the most difficult job to do on a 911 Targa and as I remind people. They are a full 10 level of difficulty on a 10 scale. Rebuilding 911 engine is only a 7.

[s_chev]

Hello all, While I agree with Dan that Targa tops are tricky, I don't think I would rate it at a 10. I talked to a local repair guy in Dallas and he gave me some good tips on how to do the job. I attempted it and mine came out great.

I took my time and had it done in three days (about 6 hours total). If you take your time it is possible. One thing that might have made mine easier is that it had been done once before and they had glued what appeared to be 1/16" head liner material over the burlap. I pulled off the old vinyl and installed the new top using 3M contact cement.

I have a few pictures I took documenting it (mostly on the removal) and can offer help if anyone is interested. I've had comments from others in the local Porsche club asking who did the work and they are amazed that I did it.


I don't think it was really skill, just patience. I did buy the new vinyl from a repair shop in Dallas so it's original material that fit perfectly. His website is www.mademint.com and I think his name was Jason. He spent probably an hour chatting with me and giving me tips.

It is now leak proof, folds up well and only has some minor wind noise when I get up to highway speeds. My solution for that is to just take it off

Have a great day,
~Steve
Keller, TX
s_chev@yahoo.com

[3.2 CAB]

Dan, is the "Targa Man" he does know his $^*~ when it comes to them. I think that the cabriolet top replacement job would also be a 10 along with the targa, just because there is a lot more parts and a lot more top to deal with. I changed my Cabs top out a few years ago, and it still looks great, BUT... I don't think that I would ever want to do that again, what a PITA!!! A lot of hand fitting, cutting, stretching, fitting, gluing, etc... the results were worth it, it still looks great, but not again. Good luck to anyone attacking either a Targa or a Cabriolet top!! Tony.