NOT inviting a flame...

[Typical Fish]

...just a question from a (somewhat) newbie...

What is the point of concours competition? Especially with a so-called "driver's car". I really just don't get it, but am open-minded to any and all responses.

[ChrisBennet]

I don't "get it" either but it seems to make some people happy...
-Chris

[Jdub]

It's where you go to talk the talk. Lots of talking. Potential of walking, but the trailers keep that from happening...

Flamesuit on... ;>

John

[tmctguer]

i have both a concourse/collector car ('89 speedster) and a driving car ('73 911E). i used to really enjoy concourse events on an infrequent basis -- once or twice a year -- then found that i wanted to drive more than clean. hence, i purchased the driver.

i will admit to enjoying keeping up the appearance of my collector vehicle. i don't do it as much now as i used to (i was quite fanatical -- cleaning with Q-tip), but i still like to step back and admire the car's lines, interior, and engine in near-pristine condition. i still enjoy attending a concourse event as a spectator rather than an entrant, as i like seeing beautiful cars that are properly cared for.

if i had to choose between the two, i would choose driving rather than concourse. but i respect the enjoyment folks get out of concourse events. after all, one should enjoy their purchases any way they see fit.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

It's a personality thing. I'd be curious to see the concours peoples' homes and garages. My house, while not filthy, could be easily labeled as "disorderly". Too much cat5 cable, too much paperwork, too many four-legged freeloaders.

My garage is a lost cause. It gets cleaned out when the Arizona dust gets too thick to tell the motorcycle from the pickup.

For the same reason, the P-car gets cleaned only when it "needs" it. Which is much more often than the other vehicles, but not within a 100 miles of councours. You'd be more likely to see me cleaning the P-car with a floor brush than a Q-tip.

Why? I just don't have the personality to keep the durn thing spotless. I'd rather spend my time trying to figure out why the window is sticking or why the A/C is squeaking.

I'd never buy a concours-quality car, because it would never see the same level of attention the previous owner had given it. Which is fine by me. I drive the car.

[Jim Sims]

Interesting topic which can easily slide into psychology, economics, thermodynamics and even sex. Why is the rare and untouched so desirable even in the context of not being able to use it if one possesses it? Why do some prefer watching beauty pageants (or the "Playboy" equivalent) to practicing making children? Why do some polish and not drive? Why do we value ourselves and others of the basis of what is owned versus what the person can do or has done or has given or has endured? In the end everything is reclaimed and recycled but many live in denial of this. I bought my Porsches to drive and fix, not to save. For some though saving is their mission; to each his own. Cheers, Jim

[jester911]

It is funny. My wife and I were having a similar conversation last nite. I was commenting on how some people put the car in the garage and take it out two or three times a year. She said why bother having it if you don't drive it. My response: Exactly!

[TRE Cup]

We had an absolutely gorgeous red 77 930 that we decided was "concours". So we entered it in full blown PCA national parade competition, naive that we were.
We quickly realized the trouble we were in when guys had assistants unloading their cars from tightly sealed trailers with diapers (honest!) wrapped around the wheels. So we stayed up 72 hours straight cleaning every imagineable place where a white gloved pinkie finger may stray.
We were delirious with hunger and lack of sleep when our turn for being judged came. Looking like a couple of homeless bums, my brother and I could only manage weak smiles and "hi-howayas" for the judges. We were certain we had a clean shot at 3rd or 4th place. The first 4 spots were locked up by some insanely detailed turbos >Even the lug nuts , center caps, and valve stems were symetrically lined up on one of them!!
After the Q tips came out, we knew we were screwed. So overall we ended up 9th out of the 14 cars. We drank heavily the rest of the day and have not entered a concours ever since. At least the car was even nicer than when we first arrived.
Nice people with nice cars, but not my bag.
Different strokes for different folks

[Superman]

I have always wondered about guys that go to those....ahem.....'playboy' style beauty pageants. I think it would be just frustrating. I'd be just as happy if my car were ugly. As long as it makes THAT SOUND and does that delicious oversteer thing. Driving it what it's all about for me. I like to get my car really clean sometimes, but then I take her for a long drive.

[expat]

I showed cars for two years and collected a few trophies. I kinda liked it for that time. I still drove them (in rotation) every week, but I got a buzz from people looking and asking questions. Surprisingly the best show car I had was a Ford Escort RS 2000. It had twin side draft 45 webers, overbored, spot peened, cam, shaved heads, balanced crank, electric fuel and oil pumps, braided lines......blah blah blah. It did a 12.73 quarter mile (still have the time card). It was a drag sleeper and a show stopper - chrome and shiny paint everywhere. You know the thing - mirrors under the car to show off those minutely polished bolt heads etc. Amongst others it won Best Coupe, Best 4cyl, Best Ford, Best Street. It was fun when I was 20ish. Now I'd rather go driving....I think it's a phase thing, an ego thing, but its a fun thing all the same.

Cheers
Mark

[epbrown]

I like concourse events myself. Neither of my cars is close to competition candidates, but if/when I do get an early 911, I hope to restore it to concourse levels. I just like the idea of having a pristine example of a classic. Something Jack Olsen once said about Paul Donkin's 911S ("It's like walking into a Porsche dealership during the Nixon administration.") sums it up perfectly; when the car doesn't show the passage of the years, it sort of takes you back to those years yourself. (That's kind of what all collecting is about.) It's a chance to see the car the way people did back then, and maybe feel the same way they did, too.

Every time I hear some 80s MTV-style tune on the radio while in the SC, I wonder how many times the interior has been blasted by it. Was the original owner listening to Flock of Seagulls or The Clash while blasting down I-94 with the top off? Is the radio used to the volume knob twisting as soon as the opening strains of "Love Shack" by the B-52s slip from the speakers? That's kind of what concourse is about, I think - not just the cleanliness.

Or to paraphrase another 80s classic: "Way I see it, there ain't no difference between a clean Porsche and a time machine..."

Emanuel

[RazorRacer]

Originally posted by Jim Sims
Interesting topic which can easily slide into psychology, economics, thermodynamics and even sex. Why is the rare and untouched so desirable even in the context of not being able to use it if one possesses it? Why do some prefer watching beauty pageants (or the "Playboy" equivalent) to practicing making children? Why do some polish and not drive? Why do we value ourselves and others of the basis of what is owned versus what the person can do or has done or has given or has endured? In the end everything is reclaimed and recycled but many live in denial of this. I bought my Porsches to drive and fix, not to save. For some though saving is their mission; to each his own. Cheers, Jim

Seriously, thanks. I needed that.

[89911]

When I bought my car, it was in great shape. It seemed like a natural progression to enter my car in a concours, since I was being urged by my fellow owners. I lost the first one I entered and then have won everyone since in my class (track). It is kind of a love-hate thing. I think I'm through with them because they make you look at your car differently, more like an art piece then car, which is wrong. I lose at least two weeks driving cleaning the stupid car for a $5 trophy. I swear next year when If I enter my car in the track class, I'm taking it straight from my last DE. Number stickers, bugs, track smudges, brake dust galore. Realism has to earn a few points, Right?

[GSpreeman]

Well, I would love to get my car to concours condition but with 244,000 miles on it, it'll be tough. That said my house is a mess, seemingly everything around me is messy (not dirty though). Obviously a dissconnect. I guess when I focus on something I go psychotic. Consequently, since I'm not putting my house on the market soon, and am not expecting guests, as long as I can find everything I'm fine.

[cegerer]

"Even the lug nuts , center caps, and valve stems were symetrically lined up on one of them!!"

Now that's what I call psychology! Personally, I've always enjoyed the drive to and from an event (whether a race, a show, a swap or whatever) MUCH more than the event itself?! How anybody can sit in a lawn chair for hours on end next to a parked 911 is way beyond my comprehension. -- Curt

[TRE Cup]

I'm too impatient to sit around these things, even at the "normal" car shows. I used to bring a couple of books to read , but with the usual 95 degrees in the shade at most of the recent ones, that got too hot and sticky to do that too.
I've always liked racing them first, street driving them second, working on them third (heck i do that all week long, so need a little break on the weekends!), and showing them last.
There is a group of motorheads in L.A. that just drive their cars to a CarNite get together every week. It is super low key and we get to see all sorts of odd machinery and cool personal garage layouts.

[mskala]

I've got no problem with concours, I like to go to them every so often, but I'm not into entering them and worrying about how clean everything isn't. I enjoy seeing what my car and the really early 911's are supposed to look like. The thing I can't understand is how they don't have like an age minimum, like say 10 years. Of course your d@mn 2002 911 is going to look like it just left the factory, it just DID leave the factory!
Mark S.
'70 914-6 chipped up bad

[silverc4s]

There are those of us that simply love to look at (and listen to) finely made and well cared for machines, whether they be vintage autos, watches, bikes or whatever. I just love to see the finely manicured grass of a a golf course covered with automotive history. When I go, if I enter, I really don't care to win. In fact usually enter for "Display Only" just to have a safe place to park. I clean the car as I normally would at home, nothing more.

I love racing also, but advancing age and obligations complicate participation for all of us there sooner or later (except P. Newman, it seems, although I hear he may have his wings clipped a bit after the R Reunion....)

I like to work on the Porsches as well. I have always marveled at how SENSIBLE and ROBUST the design of almost every system on a 911 is...

[epbrown]

Originally posted by mskala
The thing I can't understand is how they don't have like an age minimum, like say 10 years. Of course your d@mn 2002 911 is going to look like it just left the factory, it just DID leave the factory!

Actually, it's pretty well known that a brand new 911 trailered to a concourse straight from the dealership floor would place pretty far down the line in competition. A car winning at the national level would make a new one look like Pigpen from the Peanuts comic strip. But yeah, I've often wondered what the newer cars are doing there.

Emanuel

[Randy W]

Trophy house, trophy wife, trophy car (concours, not driving) - it's all the same....not that there's anything wrong with that.