Relay terminal 30 and 87a

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by damian911

Im going to try hooking up my vacuum to the exhaust again right now and ,try to find a leak. Ive done the carb spray test several times also and haven't found anything...

Im doing the vacuum test first because I don't think im going to get any readings from my WUR because I turned the ignition to on and used a test light on the #10 pin on the 14pin connection in the back and I got no 12v, I did get a 12v on the #14 pin though for the fuel pump, as ive learned recently.

Here's the thing with power to the WUR from pin 10, it will only be powered when the pump is running as it is fed by the same connection at the relay (30) as is the fuel pump. If you tried to get a voltage reading on pin 10 by simply turning on the ignition switch, it would not register. Try jumping terminals 87a and 30 in the relay socket, get your pump to run, and then see if you have power at pin 10.

[damian911]

wow u sure know ur stuff....what do u have a Porsche repair shop?? haaa..im gonna try that now...

[damian911]

#10 has no 12v with the pump on, ignition on....hymmmm

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by damian911

#10 has no 12v with the pump on, ignition on....hymmmm

I'm basing my comments on the schematic posted on pg.1 of this thread, for an 82 SC which, I believe, is the same for an 83. You can see there is a connector somewhere between the relay and the pin connection in the engine compartment.

Perhaps Timmy2 can narrow down where the connector is located or otherwise offer input as to why you are not getting power to 10 which should be feeding the WUR and AAV.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by damian911

#10 has no 12v with the pump on, ignition on....hymmmm

Damian,

Where are you putting your test light probe tip at for T14/10? To test the 14-pin connector (T14/x) located in the engine bay, you need to partially separate or fully separate it to get access to the pins. There are two (2) sections for the 14-pin connector which I refer as chassis side and engine side.

With the ignition switch @ON (not start) and terminals #87a & 30 are bridged (connected), the FP should run. When I do this particular test, I have the fuel gauge kit installed and just look at the gauge. If the gauge registers some fuel pressure, then you know the FP is running. BTW, the FP does not have to be running to get power @ T14/10 terminal. Even without a FP installed, there should be power at terminal #30 and T14/10 if terminals #87a & #30 is jumpered with ignition switch @ ON.

While the FP is running, place the tip (probe) of your test light to pin #10. Make sure the TL (test light) has a good ground and test it against a power source.

Another test I like to do without running the FP is check for line continuity. Test the line between #30 (FP relay socket) to T14/10 (chassis side). Do you have a reference manual like Bentley? Keep us posted.

Tony

[damian911]

I tested the lighting probe before and it's working...I then jumped the FP and its whining and on and the ignition is on but the engine is not...I connected the computer but it hasn't been connected in the years, don't know if this needs to be to get results in the 14pin plug

[damian911]

I then put the pin probe into the number 10 of the 14 pin connector and I have no fire..#14 has power..I tested all the other sections inside the pin and none of them have 12v except number 14...don't know if this is of any consequence..

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by damian911

I then put the pin probe into the number 10 of the 14 pin connector and I have no fire..#14 has power..I tested all the other sections inside the pin and none of them have 12v except number 14...don't know if this is of any consequence..

damian,

T14/14 should have power because it is directly connected to the battery. Timmy2 (Dennis P.) in his post (#26?) I believe mentioned about terminal T14/10 and FP relay socket terminal #30. These two (2) terminals are directly connected. If terminal #30 (FP relay socket) has power, then terminal #10 of the 14-pin connector should have power too. Unless there is a break in the wiring connection between these two. That's the reason I use a continuity test to determine the integrity of the wiring.

Have you separated the 14-pin connector and tested terminal #10 and #30 (FPR)? This is a very simple test and would take less than a minute to determine if you have power or not to T14/10.

Tony

[damian911]

im going to test that right now...

[damian911]

Ok yall asked me from where I was getting the readings...Im separating the pin totally and I guess u can say theres a male or female end, or like u said chassis or engine...After separating the connection to me the male end is mounted to the side wall and/small fuse box, the other is the female end and houses a mountain of long engine wires, im taking the reading from this female end.
Am I taking the readings from the wrong end?

[damian911]

Ok this is confusing to me but here goes
On the male end/fuse box side, #10 does have 12v as well as a few others, but #14 does not.
On the female end/long engine wires #10 does not, but #14 pin does have power. This probably makes sense to you all....
All this was done by me jumping #30 and 87a in the FP relay(pump whinning), and the ignition on.

[damian911]

Does the power from the front fuse box/FP relay eventually wind up at the fuse box on the drivers rear fuse box and male 14pin connection? If it does then my #10 pin is hot and my WUR/AAR is getting power, I just thought all this time it wasn't...

Damian

[timmy2]

If pin 10 is hot and no power at the WUR then the red/white wire in the engine harness is broken somewhere.
On the female engine harness 14 pin connector use a meter to check continuity from socket 10 to the WUR connector. Check both terminals on the WUR connector as one goes to ground, the other directly to pin 10.
The 12 VDC on pin 14 is normal as it comes from the alternator (that is connected to the starter and then the battery) to supply power to the 14 pin male connector and wiring beyond.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by damian911

Does the power from the front fuse box/FP relay eventually wind up at the fuse box on the drivers rear fuse box and male 14pin connection? If it does then my #10 pin is hot and my WUR/AAR is getting power, I just thought all this time it wasn't...

Damian

Damian,

With the FP running, ignition SW @ ON, and the 14-pin connector separated:

a). #10 pin (chassis side)...............should have power because it is directly connected to #30 (FP relay socket). Terminal #30 is already energized.

b). #14 pin (chassis side)...............will have no power.

c). #10 pin (engine side)................will have no power.

d). #14 pin (engine side)................will have power because it directly connected to the battery via alternator terminal B+.

All you have to do is refer to the wiring diagrams either from Bentley manual or the Porsche shop manual (in color). I am just reading what the wiring diagrams show.

Tony

[damian911]

Timmy and Tony I now know how to properly diagnose my WUR and AAR thanks to yall, as well as, bypass and jumping my FP relay, and why that needs to occur...Guys my WUR is getting 12v, now that everything ive learned up to now has to be done in order to properly diagnose this issue...

Now that I know this WUR is getting power now I left to use my gauges to learn how this is working with the CIS...

[damian911]

My system pressure is 65 psi

control pressure is 17-18ps, with the pump and ignition on but engine off. The specification say between 36-42 for a 81-83 911sc but with the engine Running and cold.
Is this an issue or does the pressure rise more and possibly get closer to the numbers I need, once the engine is on

Just went outside and fired it up and the pressure stay about the same 17 psi, this with the valve open and the car running for about 2 minutes and just above idle to around 2000 rpm...what does this look like?? Or did I do something wrong.

Damian

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by damian911

My system pressure is 65 psi

control pressure is 17-18ps, with the pump and ignition on but engine off. The specification say between 36-42 for a 81-83 911sc but with the engine Running and cold.
Is this an issue or does the pressure rise more and possibly get closer to the numbers I need, once the engine is on

Just went outside and fired it up and the pressure stay about the same 17 psi, this with the valve open and the car running for about 2 minutes and just above idle to around 2000 rpm...what does this look like?? Or did I do something wrong.

Damian

Cold control pressure is dependent on ambient temperature and the specific WUR, so you will need to tell us the number of your WUR and the ambient temperature at the time of the measurement.

17-18 psi (~1.2 bar) may be low for cold pressure and 36-42 psi (~2.4-2.8 bars) could be spec if the ambient temperature is very high. Are you getting the cold control specs from a graph for your car?

Pressures should not be significantly different between an engine that is running versus simply the fuel pump running through a CIS system. The pressure rises when the heating element in the WUR heats the bimetallic bar causing the diaphragm to close slightly. If your initial cold pressure does not change, then the WUR is not heating correctly (assuming you have the electrical plug connected.) A fully heated WUR should give a reading of about 3.1-3.2 bars pressure. The warm reading is not dependent on ambient temperature. Two minutes running should have given you a measurable rise in pressure if your WUR was operating correctly.

Any problems with the pressures can be adjusted. The fact that you are getting no rise in pressure with the WUR plugged in is an issue that will take a repair. Let us know if your WUR was plugged in during this time.

[Pazuzu]

It really should be noted that this car is a Frankenstein, which has had massive and possibly unrepaired/unrepairable damage done from flooding, then from horrible engine work, then from an engine rebuild of unknown quality, then of having the intake system cobbled together from used parts, to major electrical damage in the fuse box area...


It's fully possible that some of the weird numbers he's getting are because something is still catastrophically broken/mismatched/fired/melted/etc.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by damian911

My system pressure is 65 psi

control pressure is 17-18ps, with the pump and ignition on but engine off. The specification say between 36-42 for a 81-83 911sc but with the engine Running and cold.
Is this an issue or does the pressure rise more and possibly get closer to the numbers I need, once the engine is on

Just went outside and fired it up and the pressure stay about the same 17 psi, this with the valve open and the car running for about 2 minutes and just above idle to around 2000 rpm...what does this look like?? Or did I do something wrong.

Damian

Damian,

Is your car a USA or Row model? What chart did you use to get 36 - 42 psi. cold control pressure specification data? Do you know what Bosch number on your WUR? It should look like this: 0 438 140 xxx. The last three (3) digits identify your WUR. Could you check the resistance of the heater for us? Was the electrical plugged to WUR during the test?

Where did you get those specification numbers for '83 SC? They look strange to me. I would be happy to test your WUR for FREE in case you might need some sort of assistance. I do this free service to members regularly and it does not take much time to do it. Just need 4 mins. to evaluate and test the condition of your WUR. But you pay the shipping costs to and from.

Tony

[damian911]

I took the temperature at around 90 degrees and I only let the engine run around 2 minutes, not sure if the car had enough time to really warm up and yes the WUR was hooked up...

Yes those figues are from the bently manual on where there suppose to be, I think it was 36-42 psi...il try it again tomorrow and let the car run again maybe a little longer and see if my numbers rise a little..