Compare the costs, what you are proposing is not cheap either

My guess is the 3.6 swap done right if I can find the right motor is north of $20 grand.

The costs on 3.4 P&C, cams, throttle bore plus labor should be 1/2 that? Of course thats not taking into account the other possibilities with the heads once they are off.

Either way its a slippery slope.

Trader,
You are right. A 3.6 swap with be around triple what you have for a budget.

I am wondering what I would get for the 3.2 in my car now to defer costs?

The positives of a 3.6 swap is the motor is already built to make the torque and HP reliably. Assuming for example you get a motor that does not need a rebuild for about $11k, plus necessary conversion parts and labor to install, it could run you almost $20k, then you could sell the 3.2 or $6k to offset. But if the 3.6 needs a rebuild, then it's just as much if not more than to rebuild the 3.2 to a 3.4, on top of the previous total. So you roll you dice there. If you want all the power and torque you can get just do the 3.6.

If you do the 3.4, and refrain from taking apart the bottom end and whileyoureintheretitis you might stay within a reasonable budget. Who's doing the labor, you?

So here's three 3.4s built and tuned locally on a Dynojet, using the stock exhaust setup on 91 octane. One of them was built by TRE, and another Callas Rennsport. I forgot who the third was by. You can see the shift in midrange torque vs top end HP dependent on things like cam timing:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1415122379.jpg

For the layman, what do you mean by "race prepped" in this instance?

Built for racing: stronger rod bolts and/or rods, titanium valve hardware, race fuel, headers with Cup car loud open exhaust, extensive dyno tuning ...

And even then, what you posted isn't on the ragged edge of a race build. I've got customers that have engine dyno'd their 3.0l builds between 325 and 350chp.

However, I don't think at his mileage and with his goals, Trader isn't even going to need to crack the case or remove the rods. Just install the P&C on the still assembled crankcase and rebuild from there.

Ok, just checking. Seemed at odds with the rest of the description that made it sound very stock. Seems odd to me one would go that far and not play with the cams and such?

Unfortunately I don't possess the skills or have the time to do the work myself. This thread has been a tremendous help on the other hand its also opened up to a huge number of possibilities.

??????

3.4P&C's
Cams
Head Work
Throttle Bore

Any idea on what the above work / parts will run? Will they work okay with the pieces below?

Already have:
Stock Heat Exchangers
M&K Pre Muffler
M&K 1 in 2 out
Steve's 93 Chip.

Those are the rules. Imagine the possibilities if you were allowed to do more.

If you're going to pay someone else do do the work, don't be surprised to spend about $15k when all is said and done. That is why you could see a 3.6 exchange works out to be not that different but more power.

Yeah, I was woundering how he was going to pull that off for 7k. ;)

There's $5k already

Not really. Bore and plate cylinders $1k. New 98mm JE pistons $1k.

Agreed

As a data point I recently got a quote to convert to 3.4 single plug with Mahle keeping all else stock from a well regarded local shop. Their quote was just under 15k including labor, taxes, shop fees etc. I am guessing if I add in new cams and bore the throttle body I will be closer to 17k all done.

Also one thing to keep in mind is a 3.4 with Mahle will have a much higher re-sale than a 3.6 conversion as the Max Morrittz conversion is considered period correct. It can also go un-noticed/pass for stock which is a great benefit in many countries with strict laws.

this looks like the most cost effective advice IMHO. There is probably a magic cam setting...then just get a good exhaust and spend the money on a custom chip. if money is a factor, then start with the cat-bypass pipe thingy with a well vetted chip.

just saw that you have the M&K premuffler, muffler and chip...

is there any reason your engine is not already at 230HP? That doesn't make much sense given that there are stock motors (extensively tuned with the magic formula) that are putting 260 to the wheels.

Cost effective is all relative. The headers needed to achieve the numbers Steve is referencing are over $3k with open pipes, they will be more with an efficient muffler and probably never be quiet enough for daily driving use without loosing some power. They are some super fancy proprietary stepped headers with a magic collector that out flows a BURNs collector by a substantial margin. HRG aka Hergeshimer MotorSports is the sole retailer of these headers and to really get the most out of them, the step in the exhaust port/fire sleeve thing must be filled with an insert to give the best transition from the exhaust port into the header.

These motors also have every trick in the book throne at them. Little things start making a difference. Rod bearing clearances, massaging everything to get a little more compression, it all adds up. A light weight flywheel can show 4-5whp gains on a DynoJet, slight difference in air filter adapters to the AFM can be worth a couple HP, changing the engine fan pulley ratio to that of the early cars is worth a few more to slow the fan speed down. Running a 226mm '78-'79 SC fan at the early 911 fan speed is worth another 5hp or so. It all adds up.

As far as a budget approach. I have watched a truly stock US spec 3.2L with a stock aluminum clutch and full weight flywheel, 1-5/8" Euro headers, phase 9s, and nothing more then a good valve job, careful attention to the AFM, 226mm fan, and a custom chip by Steve Wong consistently put down just shy of 230whp on a DynoJet so it is possible.