Engine seems flat 3.2

[Tippy]

Cylinder Head Temp Sensor. (In a bad location) and go with copper plugs.



ALSO - check your throttle linkage - if you are not engaging your wide open micro switch - that can cost you about 15-20 HP.



How old are the plug wires? Coil? I've found that the coil's that are out these days are mostly crap

I'd reiterate the WOT microswitch. No closing of switch, no WOT fuel and timing maps in the ECU used.

It's a normally closed switch. Click it closed and you should have continuity with multimeter. If no continuity, no proper WOT performance.

[ischmitz]

Speed sensor is unlikely. If bad it either prevents engine from running altogether or causes misfires. So I'd look at mixture and throttle linkage. Make sure you get wide open throttle.

Ingo

[ALXinNZ]

Yep checked the supply voltage and the TPS micro switches and are working perfectly and to spec. WOT as well. Tested it using throttle in car to simulate real world.
Will have valve covers off tomorrow and will keep posted of findings.
Thanks

[Dan J]

Pull the injectors and have them checked and cleaned. The new gas is crap and the injectors are old. I've had people describe their running issue like this several times and found several bad injectors
Send them to someone who will test them before they clean them I use TimMarrren: http://www.injector.com/ But there are a number of these places
I'd urge everyone with a 3.2 or 3.6 to do this even if it seems to be running right
These engines run lean with the methanol fuels so if your injectors are a little clogged your playing with fire

[ALXinNZ]

Ok team. I have replaced..... reference and speed sensors. Plugs. Oil.oil filter.air filter. New distributor cap and rotor. Checked valve/rocker clearance.
Checked tp sensor. Afm tested. Compression tested. Fuel pressure.Fine.
Every time i change something i test the car to isolate the cause of issue.
I have leads. Coil . Fuel filter. Dme and injector cleaner to change before i take it to a workshop to have a look at it

[ALXinNZ]

Thanks Danj i will get the injectors done too. I was going to run a cleaner through them but i shouldnt be so lazy.

[ALXinNZ]

So all done apart from having injectors out for testing and cleaning and new leads. Waiting for people to get back from Christmas hollidays. Found many small issues looking for the fault so very happy in one respect. Still if the injectors are not the issue i will need to start getting serious. For now it is still a "big service" . Also interested to find out more on the older style Clewett spark lead issues with water????? I am running a set that are 9 years old. Tested fine but who knows....

[scarceller]

You really need to know what the fuel mixture is at. Can you get hold of a decent wideband O2 sensor and controller? You need to be sure the base mixture is at about 14.2-14.4AFR at idle fully warm with O2 disconnected.

You did not mention if the car runs a O2 sensor and cat? If it has an O2 sensor unplug it and take for a drive. Does the problem go away?

[scarceller]

FP looks fine, at high vacuum like idle it should run at 30PSI at WOT it should climb to 35-37PSI and on decel it can drop below 30PSI. That video shows things seem OK with FP. The regulator with the intake vacuum line is designed to keep a constant 36PSI across the injector. Notice I say 'Across the Injector' since the injector sprays fuel into the intake manifold and this is why the Regulator has the vacuum feedback. I'd say you are OK on FP

Originally Posted by ALXinNZ

Here is fuel pressure test. Noisy valves.
Thoughts??

https://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv% 3Df99Ij_NVHcU%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&h=1AQHF1PNx&enc=AZN878crbgmTzTOdY9nceuTwDv2JnbEaQTEQ_2ZyJZgaST WlqTFD7aiIwVaA-sJAHUU&s=1

[ALXinNZ]

Originally Posted by scarceller

You really need to know what the fuel mixture is at. Can you get hold of a decent wideband O2 sensor and controller? You need to be sure the base mixture is at about 14.2-14.4AFR at idle fully warm with O2 disconnected.

You did not mention if the car runs a O2 sensor and cat? If it has an O2 sensor unplug it and take for a drive. Does the problem go away?

Thanks for the feedback. Running O2 no cat. My brother is lending his wide band units from his engine dyno once i have the injectors sorted. He wants them done first. He has stayed out of it for now.... he wants me to fit a motec and all the electrical blah that goes with it but i am happy with what I have and enjoy the journey a lot more this way. As for fuel pressure I think it is ok too, engine is a lot quieter with valves adjusted and new oil. Regards and thanks for your help.

[scarceller]

Once you get the WBO2 you'll know exactly what the mixture is at. If you have any decent size air leak you'll know real quick, the AFR will be above 16AFR. You can even induce an air leak on the spot by simple opening the oil filler cap, this should instantly drive AFR above 17.0AFR. You can also do a simple cyl balance test on LHS (cyl 1,2,3) by unplugging an injector one at a time and watching AFR. I assume you will install the WBO2 sensor into the bung on the LHS exhaust? If so you can cyl balance test those cyls with this method. Then if you had/have another bung on the RHS you could then test cyl 4,5,6 if you don't have a bung you can swap injectors from RHS to LHS and then test again on LHS. This is a cheap way to test injector flow using a WBO2.

Originally Posted by ALXinNZ

Thanks for the feedback. My brother is lending his wide band units from his engine dyno once i have the injectors sorted. He wants them done first. He has stayed out of it for now.... he wants me to fit a motec and all the electrical blah that goes with it but i am happy with what I have and enjoy the journey a lot more this way. Thanks again.

[Jcslocum]

Originally Posted by ALXinNZ

Ok tested everything I can think apart from the actual injectors. Waiting on parts now before i pop the valve covers off and check the clearances there, will do a full service. Will replace one thing at a time and go for a skid to see if I can pin point the issue. Still have no reading on speed sensor pin 3. everything else tests OK
Thanks for the help.

I just got 2 speed sensors in the mail today. What test are you running that you need a result on pin #3 for?? I have 2 old ones in the shop too that I can test, so that is 4 total if you tell me exactly what you want.

[scarceller]

The ref and speed sensors have 3 pins, 2 pins are signal and the other one is a grounded shield. You should only read 900-1200 ohms across 2 of the pins then any other pin combo to the 3rd shield pin should read infinite resistance (open circuit).

The center pin is a signal pin and then one of the outer pins is the other signal line, the remaining 3rd outer pin is the shield. Looks like this:

1 - signal
2 - signal
3 - shield

Simply, only one of the outer pins should read 900-1200 ohms to the center pin.

But as already mentioned I don't think it's the sensors causing power loss, they usually either work or result in intermittent stalls or no start. Just check the resistance of them both and inspect the cable near the sensor for deterioration if they look and test good leave them alone for now.

[ALXinNZ]

As above. Bently manual gives same numbers. It was only electrical fault i could find and the shielding was all gone so i decided to replace. I would also reccommend making sure the plugs are home as mine un did on the test run and stopped me on the motorway. Did give me the same symptoms as i earlier had that started this whole thing but it isnt the cause.

[ALXinNZ]

Just realised I haven't posted the original symptom. I was driving back from highlands motorsport park on a back road at open road speed when the car/engine just died like it was siezing i pushed the clutch pedal in and coasted for a while as i reved the engine and it cleared itself and away i went . I then drove to the next town to inspect and the idle was at about 3500rpm. I then started pulling leads and found nothing. Stopped engine and re started and idle was back to where it should. After that it has been running flat like its just off song. So there is probably a clue or two there aswell . Cant believe i didn't mention this earlier.

[ALXinNZ]

Originally Posted by Jcslocum

I just got 2 speed sensors in the mail today. What test are you running that you need a result on pin #3 for?? I have 2 old ones in the shop too that I can test, so that is 4 total if you tell me exactly what you want.

Thanks but i replaced them already. Not the issue but shielding was stuffed so needed doing anyway.

[scarceller]

I doubt it's timing but it's worth a quick check with a timing light.
But you need to tell us what year DME you have? But here's the basic test for 87-89 DME

1 - At idle fully warm you should be at 880RPMs and timing at 3 deg BTDC
2 - Car parked in neutral rev it to 2500RPMs you should be at about 20deg BTDC
3 - Now rev to 3500RPMs you should be at about 23deg BTDC

That's basic simple no load timing check.

[r-mm]

If the engine seems flat, that is because it IS. Can't believe no one got there yet. Sorry.

Now to the helpful part of my response: I recall a thread last year from a poster whose motor would all of a sudden rev to redline with no throttle input. Fot some reason you randomly high idle reminds me of this, you might search for that thread...

[scarceller]

Originally Posted by r-mm

If the engine seems flat, that is because it IS. Can't believe no one got there yet. Sorry.

Now to the helpful part of my response: I recall a thread last year from a poster whose motor would all of a sudden rev to redline with no throttle input. Fot some reason you randomly high idle reminds me of this, you might search for that thread...

This is the thread
Eratic idle on 84 Carrera 3.2
Cause was a bad DME, this is why I suggest testing that DME in another car.

[ALXinNZ]

You won't believe me but today I took the car out for a drive with my wife to the flicks. Car was playing up lots (worst it has been) so when we got home i was straight into the back of the car hunting. Tested exhaust temps again and number4 was about 50 deg C cooler than the rest. So put on a big glove and started pulling leads starting with 4 but all affected engine the same. However No4 , No1 and No3. Plug lead left their plug connector on the plug and had seperated. an hour later i had repaired as best i could until i can replace and the car runs way better. If i replace the lot Id say we might have solved it. I have had the leads on and off lots over the last few weeks so I am surprised that they broke and may not actually be the original fault. They were one of the first things i had tested too. Will wait and see as i will get a diy kit tomorrow and make a set up.