Newbie with a 911 project- Where to begin?

[jwmunson]

Been lurking for a few years, but this is my introduction as I have a feeling you all are going to become a whole lot of help to me. And as I'm a bit new to the whole thing, I hope you'll go easy on me. After being born into a Porsche loving family- there was a painting of a 356 above my crib, I learned stick shift on a 928 GT, and until recently had a 986 S as a weekend toy- I've taken the leap and bought an old air-cooled 911.

Well, sort of. It's a '76 912e chassis with a 3.2 engine and G50 from the late 80's and an early 90's 964 widebody. (Can I still say I have a 911 if it's a 912 with a 911 powertrain, or once a 912 always a 912?) It needs a lot of work but the goal is to keep it for quite some time and turn it into a great runner that I can really be proud of. I had the ppi and compression test done by a well-respected Porsche shop in South Florida, and while the engine came back strong, here's what he told me the issues were all sic from the ppi-
1.No oil light
2.No pressure gauge
3.Lower pan rusted
4.Positive lead through hole
5.Inner tie rod bound, boot torn
6.Oil cooler lines crushed flat
7.Torsion bar housing mod rubbing trans
8.Rear flex brake lines bad
9.Axle boots torn
10.Rear coil overs need attention
11.Oil lines spliced with hose clamp
12.Fuel supply lines hose clamped
13.Fuel filter tie wrapped
14.Front and rear hood shocks bad
15.Steering column lock is "funky"
16.Belts cracked; cam feed lines wet
17. Speed & Ref sensor bad plug
18. Battery Mount bad
19. DME, Fuel pump wiring bad
20. Fuel lines cracked through center of tub
21. Pump not mounted, feed line wrong
22. Fitter (filter?) not mouted
23. Vac lines at booster point venturi bad
24. Top of motor, cam seals, return tubes, rocker cover, trans "wet"

So my question is, which to attack first? Budgetary constraints won't let me do it all at once but my goal is to have a car that I can do some work to over the winter (I'm in NYC), and then have as a reliable weekend driver for the warmer season and take part is some PCA events so I can get my skills up. Which of these are the most "do them right away or your car won't run" and which can I wait a bit on?

I always want to go about it logically. If I've already got one part of the car opened up to work on what else should I do "while I'm in there"? Mechanic suggested doing the tie rods immediately, so was going to do the Turbo Tie Rod upgrade, and figured I'd replace the torn boots and rusted pan while I'm in there, what else would make sense?

I'm looking forward to this adventure, and thanks in advance for everyone's guidance (and patience). Here's some "before" pics. One of the first things I'll do is "de-murder it" so after I remove the tinting if anyone wants to trade for smoked taillights/reflector or black wheels I'm all ears.

Thanks,
John

[COLB]

1.No oil light
2.No pressure gauge
3.Lower pan rusted
4.Positive lead through hole
5.Inner tie rod bound, boot torn
6.Oil cooler lines crushed flat
7.Torsion bar housing mod rubbing trans
8.Rear flex brake lines bad
9.Axle boots torn
10.Rear coil overs need attention
11.Oil lines spliced with hose clamp
12.Fuel supply lines hose clamped
13.Fuel filter tie wrapped
14.Front and rear hood shocks bad
15.Steering column lock is "funky"
16.Belts cracked; cam feed lines wet
17. Speed & Ref sensor bad plug
18. Battery Mount bad
19. DME, Fuel pump wiring bad
20. Fuel lines cracked through center of tub
21. Pump not mounted, feed line wrong
22. Fitter (filter?) not mouted
23. Vac lines at booster point venturi bad
24. Top of motor, cam seals, return tubes, rocker cover, trans "wet"

Welcome! Sounds like a daunting project. Hopefully some experts are going to chime in. I can only speak as a newbie who bought a Porsche and has done some DIY wrenching -- but my starting point was MUCH different than yours.

Your list above is enough to set you on your heels. The issue is not just prioritizing things:

1. Must be done or it won't run -- or will catch fire (fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel filter, speed/ref sensor, DME wiring)

2. Should be done or it will damage engine (crushed/damaged oil lines)

3. Unsafe to drive (brake booster, brake lines, tie rod ends)

4. Potential future structural/wear issues (rust in pan, axle boots, torsion bar)

5. Minor stuff (leaks, sensors, gauges)

But also realizing that you don't just go down the list -- you have to attack things in logical order, and try to minimizing the number of times you drop the engine and take things apart.

I would try to bite it in three big pieces:

1) Engine & trans (including fuel system, oil lines, hoses, belts, sensors)

2) Wiring & DME

3) Suspension & brakes

In your case, it looks to me like about 90% of the work is needed before your car is safe to drive anywhere other than your driveway.

Good Luck!

[77Targa0912]

Speechless, hope you didn't pay more than $10,000 for that car. That's what the drivetrain is worth.

Goodluck and take it in steps!

[OsoMoore]

If you wanted something to do in your spare time (and I hope you have a lot) then you've got it!

I agree with COLB - make the car safe before you get yourself hurt. A car with that many known issues probably has other things failing from lack of maintenance. I would check everything before going more then 10 miles an hour.
There are some good threads here about getting a car going after it has sat for a few years. Those may be good guidance as they will cover many important check ups.

[Patrick3000]

In all seriousness I would sell that car fast and buy another car in better shape.

Even if you take a 5K loss on the sale you will be money ahead rather than try and fix all of the issues with this one!

[Jose_JGC]

I would start by repairing the fuel lines (issues 12,13. 20 and 21) to prevent it from catching fire. Is the car rust free or is it rusted in the usual places (inner and outer rocker panels, floor, front pan, under the rear seats...)? You should know that before starting to get into the repairs because it can add way too much cost.
Jose

[universeman]

I don't agree with the assessment that this is an expensive set of problems. I see just a few things that look pricey (oil lines, fuel pump stuff, DME wiring, potentially steering column lock) and the rest look like regular maintenance or just simple projects (Fuel filter not mounted/fuel filter tie wrapped (13/22 might be the same), bad brake lines, hood shocks, axle boots, etc.

Yes there is some deferred maintenance to do, but isn't that why we all buy these old things?

[Taxi!]

John,

Whatever you decide to do with this car, be thankful that the shop where you had the PPI done (I'm in S. Florida also and would appreciate knowing which one it was), did a thorough job. I had one done last year at a Central Florida dealership on my 86 coupe and I can't tell you how many issues they failed to notice. Good luck.

Jeff

[billh1963]

You are headed for a lot of heartache with that car. I'm not a 912 bigot; however, it will always be a modified 912...which does affect value.

You will put a lot more money in that car than it will be worth (unless you absolutely got it for a song... and even then you will put too much money into it).

[juanbenae]

with all due respect, the shop that did the ppi should have strongly suggested you move on to another example. it's good to know what ails yir prospective steed, only you can decide. if there's a lemon law period in your state? if so cancel that check.

with all due respect.

[Discseven]

John... curious who did the inspection? (if you don't mind saying.)

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Taxi!

John,

Whatever you decide to do with this car, be thankful that the shop where you had the PPI done (I'm in S. Florida also and would appreciate knowing which one it was), did a thorough job. I had one done last year at a Central Florida dealership on my 86 coupe and I can't tell you how many issues they failed to notice. Good luck.

Jeff

Can you tell us what they missed in the PPI?
Might be useful for the next guy.

[reachme]

Welcome, have fun. I enjoy the maintenance as much as the driving. As far as what to call it you can put a 911 engine in a Boxster and it's a souped up Boxster so I'd proudly call it a souped up 912 if I were you.

I'd start with anything fuel, oil and braking as those failures don't end well. Put hood shocks at the bottom and see if they get better in warmer weather.

I also suspect list is longer. Do a search for the thread on maintenance items and pay attention to the ones with the shortest intervals. I doubt they've been done for awhile and those should be on the list too.

If it makes you feel better you won't have to flush coolant! Have fun, you'll do fine

[jwmunson]

I appreciate all of the feedback- negative and positive. I know it wasn't the most rational decision I've ever made, but the car deserves to be saved so I'm gonna see it out. It'll be a good learning experience and I know I won't recoup the entire investment, but hey, I've dumped a lot of money in trying to fix up old girlfriends too, at least I know I'll actually be making this thing more reliable.

Luckily I've got access to some friends with knowledge (and lifts!) so the journey will begin after the holidays. As per your recommendations I'll do the fuel system first. Since originality is already out the window with this car the goal is to fit the most modern/advanced bits to whatever I'm fixing up. On that note- is the original Bosch fuel pump the best way to go or are there better options? Once I have all the important stuff all sorted out I imagine I'll eventually be doing some performance modifications so I'd like any work now to be able to support those in the future.

Oh, and Karl- Vincent at Gulf Performance in Pompano did the inspection. He was incredibly helpful and very straightforward about exactly what I had ahead of me, I had a very positive experience there.

[tdw28210]

Good on ya, JWMUNSON. Save her and turn her into badazz 912 outlaw road/track beast.

[Robbbyg]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Good on ya, JWMUNSON. Save her and turn her into badazz 912 outlaw road/track beast.

Tooo right,

I started my murdered car at the drivers side window and worked clockwise, kinda works , when i get to things that are too hard i skip it and move on to next job, by the time ive gotten back to the hard one ive learnt how to fix it... but ive been around about errr 30 odd times so far and slwly but surely it takes shape into what you want.

If you do it with a smile its worth doing ,
Every Porsche saved is another extra happy driver on the road

If you think yours is bad this pic might make you feel better about yours

I woke up to this but as they say Love is blind

[Robert Adams]

If it were my project, I would rewrite the list based upon severity to the engine's performance so no damage is done to that and then go to the worst of the body and then move onto the mechanical. Just because the PPI list is in that order doesn't necessarily make sense to fix them in that order. I would then attach a cost to all those fixes so you know what your budget requirement is. This is not a situation where you can get away with cherry-picking what you want to fix. It's either fixed or don't do the project. Half ass work, gives you a half ass car that will only break down further as you drive it and will end up costing you more than if you had fixed it ALL properly to begin with. There are no short cuts.
Also be realistic about the amount of time this is going to take. This isn't going to be a couple of weekends and you're driving it. Probably months if not years. So ask yourself if you have that kind of commitment. If not maybe move this project onto someone else and get another not quite as needy.
I won't comment on expense vs end product beyond, it won't be a cheap endeavor both in money and your time.

Good luck!

[Targalid]

Crushed hard oil lines can be repaired with gentle heat (propane torch) and an air compressor. That's how I did mine. Worked great, made them look like new. This is the guy I copied:
Fixed my Crushed Oil line for $5 and a beer.

[Colour me gone]

Hey John

That's quite a list of things to do. Don't sell it and keep up the good work. Your list is and excellent way to start and if you're not frustrated by the length of time it will take then keep to the order you have. You'll make it.

I've had 3 911 Carrera all air cooled and while my to-do list wasn't as long as yours it was a lotta fun and a good therapy for the brain and kept my work skills sharp. If you're thrifty and dollar smart it can be a rewarding experience especially with this forum and so many good we'll informed guys on it.

Keep Calm and Carry On

John